Track 3 – Fintech Pro Tips From Top Women Producers

The women who put up top production numbers in a mostly-purchase market have proven processes for finding productive realtor partners and keeping pre-approved borrowers engaged during long home shopping journeys. In this session, they share these secrets and their go-to tech solutions so you can add them to your playbook.

Transcription:

Heidi Patalano (00:06):

Hello. Thanks for joining us. I am Heidi Patalano, Editor in Chief of National Mortgage News. You're joining us for FinTech Pro Tips from Top Women Producers. I'm so glad to welcome these lovely accomplished women. On our panel, we have Mosi Gatling Sales Manager at Loan Depot. Correct. And we have Jenna Gray Benett, a Branch Manager, and SVP of Mortgage Lending Guaranteed Rate, and Michelle Lee, Managing Director, Individual Segment Strategy and Digital Experience at First National Bank of Omaha.

Michelle Lee (00:42):

I win for the longest title.

Heidi Patalano (00:46):

Well, so that's what I really love about this mix of people here because you're coming at this all from different ways in terms of the tools that you use to really get ahead. And I know that one of the conversations that we had previously was just about the tools you use to develop your realtor relationship. So speaking to the originator perspective, this is a time where volumes are kind of lean. You really need to get those leads. So I dunno, must, what are your kinds of the things that you first go to, the tools in your toolkit that you turn to build up more realtor relationships? I know you've been here, you're quite established in this market.

Mosi Gatling (01:32):

Yes, yes. I do have a little bit of cheating going on. I got to give a little bit of credit to the company I work for. I went to LoanDepot with the idea of trying to find a home that I could be at that didn't make me grab everything on an a la carte basis because from an originator standpoint, on the front end, you're trying to grab video resources like BombBomb and group texting and all these other things that are out there and you kind of have to patch them together. And to me it looked like a lot of work.

Mosi Gatling (02:12):

So that's where you kind of lose, people get lost in the mix when you have to grab all these things and try to put them into a workflow.

Mosi Gatling (02:20):

So, I will do group emailing. I will use the system to text out information. And then as an organization, our marketing departments and sales team put together some great events to help train our realtors. I think right now in this tougher market, it's really that value add that we're giving to their business. And even in cases now really trying to help them hunt for business, it's kind of a different dynamic where in the past realtors would ask us to take them to lunch so they can tell us and help us. And now I really feel like the shoes is kind of on the other foot where they need to figure out how to get into it. It buyers are more tuned into the affordability or the cost versus the price in just the house. And now they're needing us to tell them how to do things.

Mosi Gatling (03:16):

So that, value add of reaching them with resources that can help them grow their business, looking at the sales process from a different lens, more of the affordability, the payment products that we have, they get to go tout those now and that's what's going to help them get buyers. If they're not familiar with the mortgage side right now, it might cause them issues and actually selling homes.

Heidi Patalano (03:37):

Right. It's all about showing those potential buyers that hey, they can get into a home. It is possible. I mean, I was talking about this earlier, just like the student loans getting resumed. It's a major psychological burden for these potential home buyers who would just feel like, I don't think I could even try to look for a home. Yeah. I mean, Jenna, what would you add to that in terms of the tools you use to build those relationships?

Jenna Gray Benett (04:10):

Yeah, I mean, so for context, I've been at guaranteed rate for five years. I've been in the business for almost 20. I was with my previous company for nine years, and my top year at my previous company was 50 million. And a year and a half ago I was 205 million of personal production. So when I look at that, I have to think, well, what is it about the company that I work for that has allowed me to quadruple my business? So for us, it's about taking the loan officer out of the nitty gritty of the operations piece of it. And my job is now more relationship development and counseling my clients, advising my clients. And so that's been huge for me. We have all kinds of technology and guaranteed rate is, it's almost like too much.

Jenna Gray Benett (05:09):

We have so many resources that it can be a little bit overwhelming. We have something called Agent Advantage, it's got all the bells and whistles, digital sign-in CRM for our agents, single property listings, all kinds of stuff that we can offer them. But I agree with her. I mean really it's about getting out of the nitty gritty, allowing the team you work with to do those things and their highest and best use. And then just staying in the origination piece of it and nurturing those relationships with your realtors, educating them on how they can grow and enhance their business, and really just being their sounding board, just helping realtors navigate this really tough market.

Heidi Patalano (05:55):

Yeah. Well that's interesting. Speaking of having all of this different kinds of technology available, all of these bells and whistles. So Michelle, I wondered if you could talk about basically what you do and how you're thinking about that in terms of the technologies you choose to bring in at your bank.

Michelle Lee (06:16):

So you guys kind of teed it up really, really well. I'm trying to help our top producers continue to be top producers, help bring our more middle of the pack up by doing that, what we're trying to do is help educate our top, our loan officers, how to take advantage of the technology. So many of our staff or our teams want to keep doing processes the way that they used to.

Michelle Lee (06:41):

I think it's up to me and my team to really help educate on how our technology can actually supplement. I think it was the cranial, let you focus on those cranial tasks. I heard somebody say earlier, get out of the minutia. So many of our loan officers still haven't adopted the technologies that will make their lives easier. They don't want to necessarily change. So we not only are we bringing in new technologies, but we're also helping with that change curve and the adoption curve by putting metrics and data in place that makes it transparent who's using it and how they're winning to help keep that competition factor going to make us all ultimately better.

Heidi Patalano (07:26):

Yeah, that's great. And I know mostly when we talked previously, you mentioned forecasting as a strong tool for talking to your realtor clients for talking to prospective customers, really saying what's happening in the next 60 days. I wonder if you could talk more about that. That was really interesting.

Mosi Gatling (07:47):

Yes, the data collection I think is really, really strong. Leveraging the technology from data collection. As you can see, I'm a total mortgage nerd, I'm a numbers nerd, but that data is super valuable to other high producing realtors and also home builders. Really looking at the trends of average income or median incom what field the customers work in. It really helps them adjust their business, especially if you're talking about home builders that build hundreds of homes, even comparison to a real estate agent that might do a handful. If there's a home builder that's going to do 500 to a thousand homes in that year, I want to go talk to them. And that information's really, really valuable. So they can build around who their client might be as far as who might be coming to purchase, what's their income look like. So that product actually mirrors the community they're trying to serve.

Mosi Gatling (08:47):

So, I feel that the data and me being able to sort that and have easy access to it has been a major level up for me in the business and allowed me to stay more on that purchase track then even and vary the sources that I get those leads from then, Just maybe realtors as we are changing in this market and everybody's production is adjusting.

Heidi Patalano (09:08):

Right. I think that's so interesting because home builders are really having a moment. I mean, they're really taking up a larger share of the deals that are getting done because existing homeowners are locked in at 2%, 3% rates and they're not listing anytime soon. So it's just the new inventory. So building those relationships with builders is really important right now.

Mosi Gatling (09:29):

And they love the data because all of us, it's kind of, I think Jenna might agree that we're all trying to separate ourselves in this market. We're all bringing to the table basically the same type of loans. So how can you get out there and be different, differentiate yourself, differentiating yourself in the market. So having some of that data and presenting that, and again, giving those ideas to them on how they can maybe pivot to continue to sell homes or even sell more homes or that real estate agent that's kind of right there on the cusp, just really making them get over that edge or get over that line with something new that they weren't thinking of before.

Jenna Gray Benett (10:06):

Yeah, I'm sure you experience this often. I have realtors calling me, listing agents I work with all the time. Hey, my listing's sitting, do you have any strategies? How can I get this sold? Absolutely. And then we can help them kind of strategize, we'll maybe offer a credit towards a temporary buydown or I have my mixed feelings on the temporary buy downs, but there are strategies to help realtors and then you are the expert, they're coming to you and you're their go-to, and that's solidifying that relationship.

Heidi Patalano (10:37):

Yeah. Yeah. That's excellent. I wanted to talk about pre-approvals as well and speeding up. So I was wondering what do you use, what are your tools? If you could just talk me through that. Maybe Michelle, you could tell us about what your bank does. I keep saying company.

Michelle Lee (10:59):

We use Blend and Encompass. And so most of our processes, we've automated as much as we can through there. So we do have a pre-approval track for our underwriters. And I noticed one of the guys from my team is here, actually, he probably knows the details better than me on specifics there, but it's just the transparency I think of our pre-approval where the customer's sitting that there's confidence in the information that we're providing to the buyer. All of those things I think are what kind of keep you guys out in front of the customer having that confidence in what and that it's going to be a deal that we'll go through.

Heidi Patalano (11:39):

That's great. Well, another one, sorry to pivot over to you again, Michelle, but I did want to ask about implementing new platforms, but also, I mean I think you can all speak to the process of taking on new technology and getting your teams on board with them. So I wondered maybe if you could talk about what that experience has been for you, I guess Michelle, since I, sorry, I called you up first and maybe if you guys.

Michelle Lee (12:06):

We implemented an entire origination platform change during covid. So in four months we ripped out our old system and put in Blend and Encompass and Optimal Blue during the height of volumes, super busy, everybody was running everywhere, but we did it. We got a lot of motivation from having all that platform in place, which thankfully we did at that time.

(12:35)

But during that time we didn't necessarily get our team on board with the technology change. So it was new tech old process. So as I mentioned earlier, we've been using the last couple years now to try to really take advantage of the automation and the platform, get them into it. We've also replaced our servicing system, so we're now trying to bring that servicing data back around to the front end so that folks can see where people at with interest rates. Even though there aren't as many to refi right now, there are still some customers that are sitting with high interest rates. So can we talk education and help them understand where their options might be to continue to buy down. We also have the luxury of a large credit card portfolio and a huge consumer base at the bank. And so trying to use that data to continuously feed leads into our systems so that our originators can take advantage of that as well. But ultimately for us it has been a learning curve of getting trust with the new technology, using it to its full advantage. And again, like you guys had mentioned earlier, that transparency of what are others doing and how can I mimic that behavior to ultimately up my game.

Heidi Patalano (13:48):

And what would you guys say about getting your teams on board with using the new technologies that you guys have tried? Have you had some learning curves with people or what would you say?

Mosi Gatling (14:01):

I think so. Our jobs, as far as originators on the front end, a lot of successful people have been able to thrive in a market because of habit. So it's just you talk to someone before you start the application, you ask these questions, then you enter the application, then you pull credit. It's just these processes that have been ingrained. So I think as far as getting the team on board, sometimes it does take some coaxing. I'm a little bit of a control freak, just slightly nobody say anything. Okay.

Mosi Gatling (14:38):

And the audience to speak that you're a loan officer? Yes. I'm a control freak, so I want to tap in to loans. Occasionally I can do that. I do have some free time, but I want to maybe peek in on Mr. Johnson and see how that's going and maybe make some recommendations on how we can cut down time or really giving that person just a great experience because we don't take them the long way around the mountain and we can cut through and that technology's going to let us do that. It's going to let us get those conditions immediately after I run DU get those conditions to him with a touch of a button. All the conditions are going out, don't hand type it. Why'd you do that?

Mosi Gatling (15:21):

So, like I said, I've been very fortunate to have much Jenna, a lot of that technology at the fingertips. And I think using it, buyers don't necessarily come to you for the technology, but it is the response to the experience they will have as a result of us using it on the backend. Unbeknownst to them, we can rattle off all the systems and all, but they just comment on how easy it was to get the mortgage. And that speaks volumes in the community and for referrals. It's amazing how they're like, it was so easy that I got all these things done.

Heidi Patalano (15:55):

Right. Right, exactly.

Jenna Gray Benett (15:57):

Yeah. Speed in my market is a paramount importance. I'm in the Bay area, we are doing 14 day typically non-contingent close of escrows. And so that's why I've got so much blonde hair or blonde covering my gray hair I should say. And so the process really has to be airtight. And I have to say that we call it a pod model for anyone who knows guaranteed rate. We have a front end and a backend processor, and it works seamlessly. And my pod has been in the business for 10, 20 years, so I have some very seasoned professionals working with me. So they have come to adapt to the technology as I have, and it works. Our digital mortgage is, I mean, I always say that I feel like I was chiseling loans in the stone tablets before I got to guaranteed rate because I got here and I was like, what is all this technology?

(16:55)

I've got this application and it runs my FHA case number and it reads my VA certificate of eligibility and it's you can pull your assets and it pulls the income and it does these task lists. And so it makes it easy for the client to apply in such a thorough way so that when I get to the file, it's all there and I will always be originator at heart no matter what. And so for me, I need to make sure in my climate that I have a thorough preapproval because if that falls out, that comes back on me. And so knock on wood, I have a hundred percent close rate dude loan, but it is really important that your team is on board with it. So we have implemented some things along the way. Slack is a huge one. I don't know if anyone from uses Slack, but I swear by Slack. It really keeps kind of things organized. Yeah, there's really no way around it. This is the way of the future, and if you can't get on board with it, you're not going to survive.

Heidi Patalano (17:58):

Yeah. Yeah. So talking about communications with your customers, your borrowers, what are you normally using? Because we're always talking about this perfect mix that you need to have of being able to text, email, get on the phone with them. So could you walk me through maybe what your approach is to how you communicate with your borrowers?

Jenna Gray Benett (18:22):

Yeah, I think that, I'm sorry, were you going to Oh, no, no. Okay. Yeah, I think that there has to be a mix, right? Because if you just allow the technology to communicate with them, then they feel like it's very impersonal. And so even though we have these milestone text messages, you can do BombBomb though I'm not a fan of, it's not for me, it's not my style. You can do all the things, but unless you're actually personally picking up the phone and communicating with your borrower at certain milestones, Hey, you've gotten into contract, congratulations. Here's what you can expect next. And then follow that up with an email with some instructions. Hey, your loan is approved, congratulations, and here's what you can expect next. So it's not just the technology communicating with them. They also have that personal touch. And then I ask my clients, how's it going?

Jenna Gray Benett (19:13):

Because that's super important and I want them to not feel like they've been abandoned and thrown into this technological, the machine black hole, right?

Jenna Gray Benett (19:25):

Yeah, so it definitely needs to be a blend, and I think that that's where people thinking that digital mortgages are going to take over the industry and it's going to phase out the loan officer that simply won't, it can't be right.

Heidi Patalano (19:39):

Right. Right. And what would you say, I'm sorry, Mosi, what would you say about how you engage with your customers?

Mosi Gatling (19:47):

What's your Very similar, the loan, the digital mortgage is phenomenal. It is going to contact them. If I get notified of an approval, my customers getting notified simultaneously, and that's when we'll pick up the phone and say, Hey, congrats, you haven't seen the email yet. This is what's going on. Just to keep them tied in and have that human touch to it because they are getting all the notifications. But yeah, you do need to tap in on some of the major ones to make sure that they understand what's going on. They can use the system to contact us to schedule an appointment, making things a little bit more fluid so they don't feel like they're playing phone tag. It's really taking out some of that guesswork. Again, for that experience, it's all about the experience when it comes to them. So combining the system strengths, the machine that we'll call it. And then also us just being involved with them so they feel like they've got somebody's hand to hold and the computer can't do that.

Mosi Gatling (20:47):

So, they love that part that it takes that easy communication, that documentation off my plate, my team's plate, so we can just pick up the phone and make that phone call.

Heidi Patalano (20:57):

Right, it has to be that perfect blend.

Mosi Gatling (20:59):

Got to tie it together a little. You want to hear us still?

Heidi Patalano (21:03):

Yeah, absolutely.

Heidi Patalano (21:04):

Well, one other thing I wanted to ask. Of course, everyone's talking about AI, it's all you can hear everywhere. It's all you hear about is chat GPT and all of these things. So I wanted to ask about the most exciting applications of it that you're seeing in this space. Jenna, do you want to kick us off anything interesting that you've been noticing?

Jenna Gray Benett (21:26):

Specifically to chat to?

Heidi Patalano (21:29):

No. Well, I guess I'm trying to this, you had mentioned something really interesting in our pre-conversation, and I'm trying to now, pardon of me. I'm trying to remember what it was. But I guess how are you using new technologies that are interesting to you? Oh, I know what it was. You and I were talking about how some people are using it to write their copy or their communications or I think that might've been what it was. Just the ways that you can use these new technologies that will help the LO on a daily basis. That's what I was.

Michelle Lee (22:03):

So I use it for a lot of things. I think first and foremost, as much as I'll wholly admit, I absolutely hate social media. I do. If I didn't have to be visible to my client, my referral partners, I would not have any of it. But AI is the direction that that's gone in creating reels and engaging engagement and creating content and things that people can find useful and also our referral partners can share. I have had the chat revamped my bio. I've had it help me with creating newsletters. It takes what you are trying to communicate and it simplifies it and it makes it more concise and it helps you to just communicate more effectively.

Heidi Patalano (22:56):

Yeah. And Michelle, have you seen some interesting, you're looking at this technology all the time.

Michelle Lee (23:02):

So, we as a bank are testing out some of the capabilities more in internal for customer service, customer support. We have a variety of information that we want to make more accessible to our loan officers and our customer support folks. But I think the other piece of it much to what you've talked about is simplifying some of your day-to-day. I've used it to write job descriptions. I've used it to write job interview questions or at least to get me started.

Michelle Lee (23:30):

So, all those things just take some of that creative burden often at least gives you a starting place. So I think it's really important to embrace just as a human, not just as an employer. I think it's also worth noting, it's starting to become a source for our customers to go to ask the questions that maybe they feel aren't intelligent enough to ask another person. They don't want to sound stupid, so they go to a chat GPT and type in a question just to see what the starting point is and learn as much as they can before they're reaching out. So I think it's important to understand how our consumers are using it as well so that we're not underestimating the power of that tool as it continues to grow. But yeah, it's exciting. I think we also need to look into it a lot more. I know we've talked about it from an underwriting perspective. That's the opportunities that we have and how can we continue to use it to help us make decisions faster.

Heidi Patalano (24:30):

Yeah. I think it's really fascinating. Do you have any kinds of AI related, it's just such a hot button. It's just the topic of the hour.

Mosi Gatling (24:43):

Using it, for instance, using it on social media. There are some applications, MyChat respond to people that have questions for you because like you said, I'm one of the people, I'm that naughty person that doesn't love social media. I've always been great behind my desk and never had to really be like, hi, I'm Mosi, come video me or numbers people. Exactly. I'm just like, yeah, I'm a numbers person. Why do I have to do that? But being able to communicate with people on their time. I am from Las Vegas. We are a 24 hour city, so when somebody gets off work at 1:00 AM I get probably about 50% of my online applications between 10 and 2:00 AM

Heidi Patalano (25:29):

That's so interesting.

Mosi Gatling (25:31):

So having that out there, if somebody does have a question or they do see something that I post on my page, having that MyChat kind of engage them to narrow down what their question may be. So they're getting some type of engagement. I think that they may not expect you to answer all of their questions at 1:00 AM because they're off. I do make it clear that I won't be, but just having some type of engagement go back and forth because whatever they're contacting you on is a little bit more intuitive or on that AI path. I think it helps because if they get stuck on that application at 1:00 AM there isn't anyone to answer that question for them.

(26:09)

So if it can ask them what their concern may be or did you have questions and engage with them, I think it gives them a little bit better experience in the moment if they can't pick up the phone. So many people are on their phones and multitasking or somewhere, maybe you can't take a call, but they can put in an application, but they can answer an email we've sent or request for documentation. So I think it's maybe the way that we're going to have to go to at least engage the customer a little bit more.

Heidi Patalano (26:39):

Yeah, I really love that. Idea of just having those tools available at any hour of the day and making sure that people can get those answers that are kind of unique to them so that they can move this process along at any time of day that they may be looking into it. Well, I do want to ask, I love to ask people what your advice is for people starting out in this business now. It's a tough time, it's a very tough time to be getting into the business. So I would want to ask, what is your advice to people or maybe who are in it right now, and what would you say to them in order to really be the person that gets that loan out there as opposed to your competitor?

Mosi Gatling (27:34):

I think you may have heard us all exhale when she asked that question. Best of luck. The market is of course interesting. We'll say it's interesting right now, but I think it just maybe, I think it's critical to create your own lane. You can't take maybe the best of some pieces from here and there, but you are going to have to make your own lane in this market because if you go down the lane of 10 years ago, the lane of two years ago, that's where the disaster comes in because those are the things that we're not able to as originators go out and replicate in this environment.

Mosi Gatling (28:18):

So, the things that we're talking about right now, what technology to use, what tools, those are the conversations you want to have, but you don't want to steal someone's mojo from 2021. It won't work. So taking your best attributes about you, whether it be that you're great at numbers or you're great at talking to real estate agents or teaching, get out and teach.

Mosi Gatling (28:39):

Get out and teach the consumer. Get out and teach businesses how their employees need job stability and that job stability comes with a stable home. Go do the things that make you weird and different and talk to people. And by creating your own lane with your strengths, I feel that you can find your place in this market because replicating somebody else or what worked of days of old could lead you to spinning out and not really being successful and wondering why.

Heidi Patalano (29:16):

Yeah, it comes down to authenticity.

Mosi Gatling (29:17):

It does, yeah. Be you, be your weird self. I'm weird. I say it all the time. I'm weird. I'm crazy, and I'm just like, Hey, what about this? And people just kind of entertain me because I do it, but I think it brings something different to my customers and business partners where we could be weird together. We're thinkers and we're going to create and blaze our own path in this market to be different and to come out of this a little bit different, but still be successful and be able to close business and still make money.

Heidi Patalano (29:47):

Right, right. Absolutely. That's great. Jenna, what would you say?

Jenna Gray Benett (29:52):

This is kind of multifaceted. I think first and foremost, I don't care how long you've been in the business right now, it takes pure grit. This is just not the climate to take a long vacation as not as we all want to take that European vacation and just close our eyes tilts over. But this is the time where we have to really be focused on what our process looks like, fine tuning that process, the customer service experience, really make sure that we are reaching out to our referral partners and being a resource for them, encouraging them, talking them through them, educating them, and just really doing those things that when it's really busy, you don't really have the time for hosting the broker tours and doing all the things that you didn't really have to do when loans were falling in our laps two years ago. And then really staying true to yourself, your own personal brand, who are you as an originator? What are you trying to communicate and who is that audience? I'm a mom, I'm a real estate investor. I'm all those things in addition to being a mortgage lender. And so my audience is maybe different than someone else's audience. And really fostering those relationships people work with who they like to work with. If they like you, they're going to want to work with you. If they trust you, they're going to want to work with you. Transparency is huge for me. When I pre-approve somebody, I will schedule a 40 minute zoom with them, screen share my loan operating system, run my pricing engine in front of their face.

(31:40)

And I will show them, here are your loan options. Here's how we price interest rates. This is what your monthly payment looks like. This is what you can expect for closing costs. By the time they get off that zoom, they're mind blown because A, they've seen the backend, right? There are no surprises, no secrets and they get off of it really feeling like I took the time to explain to them exactly what they can expect at the price point they're shopping at.

Jenna Gray Benett (32:07):

And so I think all of those kind of just bare bones basics is what you have to stay true to. And then just circling back, it's just grit. Get out there. You got to work hard.

Heidi Patalano (32:18):

Yeah. Yeah, certainly. And I'd love to do the old guessing game of when do you think the market is going to come back? When are we going to see rates drop? Just your best guess. It's a favorite parlor game. So Michelle, maybe do you want to start that one off?

Michelle Lee (32:39):

I think it's going to be no sooner than end of next year.

Heidi Patalano (32:43):

Yeah, yeah.

Jenna Gray Benett (32:43):

I agree. I think we're entering a tough phase with the election year being what kind of a circus it's going to be. Right. And though 2020 was an election year, we also had a global pandemic, and so it's a much different climate. I think we're going to see a little bit more pain before we see light at the end of the tunnel maybe.

Mosi Gatling (33:05):

Yeah, I agree.

Jenna Gray Benett (33:07):

Early 2025.

Mosi Gatling (33:08):

Hopefully think we'll be talking like next year.

Jenna Gray Benett (33:10):

Year and half.

Mosi Gatling (33:11):

Maybe end of the year or so, maybe we'll see some relief as far as rates are concerned. It's just, I think also that as we go into this, what's becoming the undescribed result? Of course, we've always talked about, oh, interest rates are higher, it makes a payment, higher prices are higher. That's affecting affordability. I think that more of what I'm hearing from customers are what's the mental toll of that? Everything costs more. It's not just houses and it's gas, it's daycare, it's whatever you're paying for. So the main thing that customers, I think that they've stopped listening to the crystal ball predictions now, right? Because according to everything, they've all been, they're supposed to be like five and a half right now if we got into that, and they're not willing to buy into it anymore. The prediction, they're just, it's the mental toll of, okay, when is something going to give way for me? Even if it's gasoline, even if it's groceries, something that they want.

Mosi Gatling (34:18):

And I think that those buying decisions will follow. It doesn't even have to be just rates. That's the thing that we can look at every day. It could be something else gets less expensive and gives them more of a spend on the home relief. Let's just call it relief. Everybody's looking for some sort of relief. So I hope that we get some other types of relief maybe before the end of next year, beginning of 2025.

Heidi Patalano (34:42):

Because that also speaks to the forecasting that we were talking about earlier that you're doing and being able to give people a little bit of a sense of here's what we see, these indicators, these canaries in the coal mine of the next 60 days, that may motivate people to start looking again.

Mosi Gatling (34:57):

To be able to purchase. Yeah, because housing in general is expensive. Renting an apartment's expensive.

Jenna Gray Benett (35:04):

Filling your gas tank is expensive. Consumer debt is at an all time high when they rent.

Mosi Gatling (35:09):

I still feel maybe the conversations need to change a little bit about the whys and why someone should buy. I think that that's Important because we've always said, oh, you should buy. It's like you can paint your house, you could do what you want. Generational wealth equity. My daughter is 25 and she bought a home during the pandemic, which is great. She lives with me. She had no choice but to own. But it was more of me looking at the sustainability of her payments, whether it be rent or not. As a mother, I had to look at what is she going to expect me to come back and maybe pay for her or help her with if this becomes too expensive.

Mosi Gatling (35:49):

 So talking about the stability, the consistency of owning. And also on the short term, very, my children that are millennials, they're not thinking about generational wealth. They're the selfish ones. They're not thinking about their kids kids and what they're going to have. They're like, skip them. I want to go to, life is beautiful this weekend. That's what they want to spend their money on. They don't care about my great-grandkids at all right now because they don't have them. So I do know one thing that's very, very pivotal that I found helpful is landlords match energy. Everybody talks about matching people's energy. So in your rental contract, if you get 60 days to be able to give notice to move, or you have to give that 60 day or that 30 day, imagine being homeless and getting 30 days notice. Imagine being homeless because that landlord has all this equity and now he wants to sell. Or that landlord is like, Hey, I've been renting to you for two years because you've been locked in and I want to raise your rent by $600. I feel that we've become part counselor over the past year and a half.

Mosi Gatling (36:53):

His rates have increased, not just doing mortgage loans. So we have an honorary PhD. Talking to these people and wiping tears for those very reasons. And I think that that also can help us when we're talking to people about the greater scheme of what ownership looks like and what it does for them, not just the generational wealth, but kind of changing that conversation. Stability, that stability. So you don't have that happen because the people that got 60 days notice like, Hey, I'm selling my house. Wow, 60 days is a lot of, you don't have a lot of time to make your life look like it needs to look to qualify for a mortgage. If you simply never thought about it, if that were so, LeBron would've said he wanted to be a champion, and one, two days later, what people are coming to me expecting us to do when maybe they didn't engage in that conversation earlier. So I think that shift right now is huge.

Heidi Patalano (37:46):

That's so interesting because I mean, certainly I am based in New York and we've been hearing that from a lot of my friends have said, oh yeah, the landlord's raising the rent. I got to find somewhere else to live and not really connecting that thought to, but if I owned, I wouldn't be encountering this kind of.

Mosi Gatling (38:06):

Increase is very minimal because you're talking about taxes or maybe minimum homeowners association increases. Largely, it's far more stable than what we're going through now with the large amount of equity and the fact that the landlords can raise rent just because they can. And it's not like, oh, your rent's going up $50 in years past it's, Hey, it's 500. Hey, it's 800. And now these customers are regretting maybe not stopping and buying when they kind of kicked tires two years ago. So preparing for buying is preparing for if that comes up. So even if they don't have it on their menu, I want to own in six months, great, but when's your lease up? Alrighty, well, are you prepared for that now, that stability that you need? And it's not really there. So there's a lot of shifts. So lots of conversations we get to have right now between people.

Michelle Lee (39:01):

How do you guys then know though, address availability? Because I think a lot of people are renting now what's available? Landlords bought up a bunch of houses with cash. So I guess that's where I always struggle with those conversations is, yeah, I'd love to buy if there was something available.

Jenna Gray Benett (39:18):

I think people have to, and this is a conversation I have often adjust expectations when rates were two and a half percent. It was easily to, in my market, people were overbidding by half a million to a million dollars on a property, and it was absurd. But now that rates are 7%, they're like, oh, I don't want to even get seller concessions and pay below ask on a property. There's just this weird psychology going on. So it's always been my opinion that owning something, even if it's not your forever home, is always better than renting always. And so that's often a conversation I have with my clients and my real estate partners is like, Hey, we need to set realistic expectations of what this person can afford right now if rates never change and they can never refinance their loan, they have to buy what they can afford right now. And then find them something that fits into that criteria, whether it's a stepping stone or not. So yeah, it's a much different conversation.

Heidi Patalano (40:23):

So interesting. It's a big shift.

Mosi Gatling (40:28):

Huge.

Heidi Patalano (40:28):

Yeah. Yeah. I need to wrap it up there, unfortunately. But thank you so much for your time here today. It's been lovely talking with you all. Thanks for joining us, and thank you for being a part of this as well. Thank you.