Top Producers AMA: Tech, Rates, M&A and More

Get your burning questions about the mortgage industry answered at this Ask Me Anything of top producers. We'll discuss the tech—including, of course, this new generation of powerful genAI—redefining lending practices; how to keep a steady pipeline of business in this high-rate environment; what impact the rash of M&A activity will have on recruitment and compensation; and more.

Transcription: 
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio for the authoritative record. 

Jake Vermillion (00:08):
Well, Heidi, thank you so much. Let me just say it's really cool to see a digital mortgage conference, a technology conference, and in many ways, a news media outlet for our industry recognize the importance of the originator in our space. Even still today, we see a lot of transformation. This industry is headed in new, exciting ways. There's emergent technology with AI, and yet we are still in many ways at our core a people business. I'm really excited to have the opportunity to sit down with two people who are doing an incredible job representing our industry, serving customers, and creating homeowners all across this country. I see Phil entering the room. So Heidi, do we want to hand out an award real quick before we start our conversation?

(00:52):
Alright, we're going to get Phil miked and we'll go ahead and start. Let me go ahead and introduce the guy sitting next to me. This is Shawn Malkou. Shawn is basically what every exec says that they want in the next generation of loan officer. He's a digital native who still pounds the pavement. He drives business on social, but he still pushes his team to make dials. I've seen him actually do on YouTube cold calling competitions with his team and they're all 20-year-olds. So that's something. He's also someone who understands what it means to embrace technology without losing the personal touch. He is, in fact, a top producer. He broke over $50 million in personal production before founding his very own brokerage, X2 Mortgage, in 2021, which was just three years into the business for him—which is very impressive. Since then, he's built a team of 20-plus members. He's been named the number one broker under the age of 30 in 2024, and he's grown an audience of nearly a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube. So Shawn, thanks for being here, man. I appreciate it.

Shawn Malkou (01:49):
Yeah, best intro ever. Thank you.

Jake Vermillion (01:52):
That's my pleasure. Well, we have on the stage with us now the man of the hour, Phil Crescenzo. Phil, as you know, is a divisional leader at Nation One Mortgage. He and his team are regularly at the top of the leaderboard, and it's no mystery as to why. Every year for the past six years, Phil has personally produced over a hundred million dollars—six years consecutively. I think it's worth noting that Phil and I actually first met online late at night on Google Meet. We were part of a LinkedIn social selling cohort. That is the type of person that Phil is. When he's at the peak of his game, he's still taking time late at night to get better at something, not just for himself and his own production, but really to lead the way for his team and show the path that they should be walking down. He's a passionate person, he's focused, he's diligent, he's deserving of all the success he's earned. Phil, thank you for being here. Appreciate you.

Phil Crescenzo (02:45):
Thanks for having me.

Jake Vermillion (02:46):
Alright, so we're going to try and make National Mortgage News' job a little bit easier. I know that they're doing some live journalism around these events. We're going to get into what I think everyone wants to hear: what is actually working for you as a top producer. I'd like to hear from you both. What's the number one thing that you believe—based on what's working for you in this market—every lender and every originator in this room should be focused on? Phil, let's start with you.

Phil Crescenzo (03:13):
Focus on the customer. It's not talked about enough. It's not focused on enough. I don't think it's considered important enough, honestly. It seems simple, but that's in the center of everything that I do, including process and follow-up. If you stay centered on that truly, and there are non-negotiables there, you're going to make sure that you come through, you're going to make sure you meet your obligations, you're going to make sure the client's needs are met, and you're going to be paying that extra attention. I would say that's by far the biggest thing—never losing sight of the client experience and the empathy of what they're going through.

Jake Vermillion (03:55):
Absolutely. What's that look like in your business? How do you guys actually live that out day to day?

Phil Crescenzo (04:00):
Listen, train, care, and lead. If I see something happening within the branch that I don't feel like is up to our standards, being able to step in and handle it. Step in and do it. Show 'em how it's done. This is what we expect; this is what the client expects. Then, not losing those teaching moments. There are opportunities where we make a mistake. We don't just walk away from that. We actually campaign on that, that it's not going to happen again. How did it happen? We have a team culture and a team buy-in that we're going to revisit these things. The accountability's high, the expectations are high, and so everybody's meeting that obligation, pulling their own weight, and making that happen. That just resonates through the team. They see the leader doing a certain activity and they're going to follow and try to adhere to that.

Jake Vermillion (05:04):
Shawn, I see you shaking your head. What's the number one thing that you're doing right now that's working in this marketplace?

Shawn Malkou (05:09):
I love everything that was just mentioned. I would say right now in this market—I'm sure we all hear it, but more importantly on the origination side, we hear it even more—how this is the hardest market ever. I've only been in the industry maybe seven years. I'm a baby compared to most people here. But back to basics. The number one thing that's working is back to basics. 2020, 2021, and 2022 were the easiest years of everyone's lives. You just had to wake up in the morning and you had three new apps. It was great. Now this is, in my opinion, more of a normal mortgage market where we actually have to work to get our applications and work to provide good customer service.

(06:00):
I think a lot of what's working for us is truly just back to basics. We're no longer waking up and expecting those three apps. We're going to go get those apps today. We're going to go make those calls. We're going to go post that social. A lot of people know about basic business generation tactics, and we don't follow that necessarily to a T, but we do have daily and weekly metrics that we follow and that we expect everyone to be hitting on. It's simple stuff. It's picking up the phone, talking to people, and going to your open houses. It's all of your basics that we all know about. It's just that most people in the industry right now want to complain about the industry instead of actually doing those things.

Jake Vermillion (06:37):
Can I just point out how interesting it is that you're talking about fundamentals and basics? As someone who has a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube, you would think that someone like yourself would be talking about top of funnel, influence, and these sort of customer engagement strategies. Instead, you're talking about the customer experience in terms of how you steward the opportunity for a conversation into an actual closed loan.

Shawn Malkou (07:03):
The big thing with top funnel and social is that it is great to give your social proof to help you get that lead converted. It's great when I talk to someone and they've got a 550 credit score and I say, "Hey, we need to get your credit score up a little bit. Here's a YouTube video." Now they're going to my channel going, "Oh, this guy's legit. He's got some stuff." That helps get that person to the finish line. But I would say more so with the customer and with that conversation is—and I think we talked about this a little bit before—spending that time on that initial mortgage consult call to really understand who you're talking to. Don't just look at them as a lead, an app, or a potential closing; I want to know who they are and how I can help them.

Jake Vermillion (07:51):
Love that. Let me ask you the converse then. You guys have pointed out what we should be focused on to achieve the type of production that you guys are achieving. What's the thing that everyone else is doing that you've intentionally chosen not to do, which has resulted in you out-competing them in the marketplace? Phil, let's start with you.

Phil Crescenzo (08:10):
Leading with interest rate first. If I'm having a conversation and I bring that up first, I just made that the most important topic. I also took myself out of the equation, made myself a number, and I wasted the opportunity. I'm not going to get it back. That focus out of the gate—you can't do it. Also, sounding like everybody else, sounding too "salesy," and assuming that you know what a client wants before you've established that rapport. There's no connection, and if you miss that opportunity, even in the early stages, it's very difficult to get back. You probably lost it. We try never to do that.

Jake Vermillion (08:55):
We ask loan officers all the time at Mortgage Champions, who more often than not is more concerned with rate heading into a conversation, the loan officer or the customer? The reality is they have to admit to themselves it's the loan officer. If a customer is coming to you for a loan, they're exploring the process, whether they're qualified or not. They don't live under a rock; they're at least comfortable with the idea of exploring whether this is the right decision for them, even knowing where rates are today. Shawn, how about you? What's the one thing you're not doing that other people are?

Shawn Malkou (09:21):
Definitely the rate conversation. But I would also say we're not chasing the shiny objects that a lot of people are. They might see, especially at a conference like this, a new tech platform or something that someone else is having success with. We're not necessarily chasing that. We're really vetting what that is and if that can plug into our business. If it can, great, let's do a small pilot and make sure before we fully adopt something new. If you're constantly jumping what you're doing, you're not going to find success because our customer acquisition—taking the customer from that initial call and walking 'em through the cycle of getting a closed loan—is a long time. There are clients I talked to three years ago who are buying houses now. If you're constantly changing your process or jumping ship to do something new, you might be losing a lot.

Jake Vermillion (10:20):
Okay, so we talked about the dos and the don'ts. We're not talking about shiny objects. I actually want to play a little game with you guys to really suss out what remaining loan officers consider shiny objects. I'm going to present you something we see commonly in our business, and I want you to rate it one of two ways: either overrated or underrated. Mark down your answers and we'll revisit them. First and foremost, being instantly responsive to borrowers and partners.

Phil Crescenzo (10:48):
That's a tough one. Overrated in some instances.

Jake Vermillion (10:52):
Okay, interesting. Shawn?

Shawn Malkou (10:56):
I hate saying this, but I'm going to say underrated.

Jake Vermillion (10:59):
Okay.

Shawn Malkou (10:59):
I hate the fact that we're tied to that, but it does win business.

Jake Vermillion (11:04):
Absolutely. Calling past customers instead of texting or emailing?

Phil Crescenzo (11:09):
Underrated.

Jake Vermillion (11:14):
I might say overrated. We have no agreement so far. Alright.

Phil Crescenzo (11:19):
That's an interesting panel.

Jake Vermillion (11:21):
Regularly training to sharpen your skills?

Phil Crescenzo (11:25):
Absolutely underrated.

Jake Vermillion (11:27):
Absolutely underrated. All right, we have some agreement. It took three. Here's the charm: sticking to a script versus winging it.

Phil Crescenzo (11:35):
Overrated.

Shawn Malkou (11:38):
It depends on the LO for me. Overrated.

Jake Vermillion (11:42):
Okay.

Shawn Malkou (11:43):
But overrated.

Jake Vermillion (11:47):
Borrowers being asked to fill out self-serve digital applications?

Phil Crescenzo (11:56):
Overrated.

Jake Vermillion (12:00):
Underrated. Big fan of the digital app. Posting consistently on social media?

Phil Crescenzo (12:13):
Underrated.

Jake Vermillion (12:15):
I had a feeling we'd have agreement on that. Finally, the big one for a digital mortgage conference: AI tools specifically for mortgage sales.

Phil Crescenzo (12:24):
Overrated.

Jake Vermillion (12:24):
Overrated. Okay. We know where we stand. Thank you for that. Let's quickly dive into those couple of disagreements we had upfront.

Phil Crescenzo (12:35):
I knew we were going to leave it there.

Jake Vermillion (12:37):
Phil, instantly responding to your partners and your customers. Shawn defended it and said it brings in business. Help me understand your answer.

Shawn Malkou (12:47):
It's funny, we talk about this all the time. I always say, "Hey, when I've got a whole bunch of money and I want to work more out of the industry, I'm not going to be responding very quickly." But for right now, it does win business. I hate acknowledging that sometimes because I am a slave to my phone and my computer. But that could be the difference between winning an agent or a borrower over. If someone is out there shopping—and I'm sure you've seen this a lot—they might go show someone a house without ever talking to a mortgage professional. Then they fall in love with it and they have to put an offer in two minutes ago. They call you and say, "Hey, we need this pre-approval right now." If I say I'm out at the lake wakeboarding and enjoying some time and I'll get to that tomorrow, they're definitely calling someone else.

Jake Vermillion (13:42):
Phil, I feel like you really have to defend your answer here because I listened to your son's recent webinar with Rola about this very question and he was adamant that you should be very responsive with your borrowers and partners. He's your own son.

Phil Crescenzo (13:54):
And I taught him, because it's about context. I was showing you an email of some loans coming in that I'm posting on Facebook. We're still going to make September. I'm obviously, in that scenario, going to respond immediately—instantly almost. But if I'm working with a partner and somebody wants an immediate response on off-hours due to a lack of preparation, it's probably not a good partner. I'm going to respond and help the situation, but then we're going to have a discussion because it's not putting the borrower or the situation where it should be.

(14:58):
Now it's my obligation to coach them a little bit and say, "Listen, on a Saturday afternoon, why didn't you tell me Thursday or Friday? Now we're out of position and I can't get the right data. We're going to rush through it and the client's not going to really get to ask the questions they want." Why don't you let myself and the team prepare this better? Let me give you a couple of payment options and then you tell me where you want to go. We're going to respond instantly, but we're not going to be taken advantage of by providing low-quality responses at the wrong time.

Jake Vermillion (15:28):
It's critically important when capturing first-time business, but once you have an existing relationship or you're trying to set standards, you need to communicate and educate on how we can do this best together. It's not always about doing things last minute and rushing. Let's help the audience understand your businesses, because you're both top producers but do it in very different ways. Everyone is trying to grow their own top producers or recruit them. Let's go through where your opportunities come from, what your current loan mix is, and what you handle versus what you lead to your team. Phil, I know you work with a lot of big-box builders, FHA, VA work, and manual underwrites. Can you walk us through your current business structure?

Phil Crescenzo (16:31):
The majority of my business, probably 75%, is new construction. We're one of the top new construction lenders. We don't have the special interest rates that some do in South Carolina, so we fill a need. Our team is very strong in the manual underwrite space, FHA and VA speed, credit boxes, and exceptions. We provide an immediate response to keep a client on a particular property. That opens up doors for other real estate agents that we might not have had the opportunity to talk to. There's usually an agent on every side, so now you have two potential future partners—the builder agent and the buyer agent—their teams, and the testimonials. We fill a need and we pull through a very high percentage. That's a lot of wins and things that weren't going to work that now do. We're big in the veteran space.

Jake Vermillion (17:41):
Shawn, obviously you have a huge social media presence. Are you going direct to consumer or is this more about getting to referral partners in your markets?

Shawn Malkou (17:52):
We are direct-to-consumer a good amount, but it's not our primary focus. It's definitely helpful, but that model—no matter how big of an organic following you get—is "pay to play" and really comes down to cost-per-click and conversions. We like the self-sourced, referral-based clientele. Since we're a broker, we're known in the space; a lot of my partners refer to me as the guy who can do it if nobody else can. If I talk to a scenario that no one wants to do, we will do it because we will win over a buyer's agent and a seller and get good testimonials.

(18:54):
Something I'm not proud of—and I'm sure no one in this room ever wants to do—but we will do some chattel loans, which are manufactured homes on leased land. Those can be very challenging when you're used to doing normal loans. Are we very profitable on those? Not quite, but we will win over the business and the referrals that way. We've built our business by finding products in the marketplace that we don't currently have so that we never have to say no.

Jake Vermillion (19:36):
Actual mix: purchase to refi. How does that stand for both of you?

Phil Crescenzo (19:43):
99 to 1.

Shawn Malkou (19:44):
80/20 purchase.

Jake Vermillion (19:44):
Will that change at all with the rate cuts and everything?

Phil Crescenzo (19:50):
Yes. We'll refinance existing customers as a service add-on, but we're not marketing outbound to that. We're driving in the relationships.

Jake Vermillion (20:01):
I'm detecting a trend: you guys are top producers doing huge numbers, and you are both systematic in your processes. You have the ability to bend over backwards in certain scenarios to win over new partners. That's important for people here because we all want to create that perfect process that we can replicate and lift all boats within our ecosystem. At Mortgage Champions, we see the "haves" and the "have nots" in the marketplace. For you guys, you're able to have this systematic approach where you've built out how you work with customers and referral partners, yet you still have the space to bend over backwards to get them in the door and build that relationship. Is that correct?

Shawn Malkou (21:23):
Yep.

Phil Crescenzo (21:24):
Correct.

Jake Vermillion (21:28):
I was on Jeff Simper's podcast recently and he said, "We all have a process. It's really just a question of whether it's bad or good." Phil, you believe the process should be measurable, repeatable, and tunable. You talked about how when you have a mistake, you want to easily go back with your team to identify and correct it. Walk us through how you're approaching origination like it's manufacturing.

Phil Crescenzo (22:06):
The business model might seem "unicorn-ish"—like it's not realistic or can't be duplicated—but it absolutely can be. The fundamentals can be duplicated everywhere. These are things I developed over years of looking at my process and having a relentless commitment to the client experience. It's just not okay for it not to go well. I feel like we shouldn't bring the client in if we can't see it all the way through and make it go well. Every client gets the same opportunity, treatment, and respect regardless of loan size or credit score.

(22:53):
I work really hard to condition the environment. What I mean by that is if I see one of our realtor partners checking in on an update that took too long, being proactive with that approach and getting the team's buy-in upfront is key. When this happens, our goal is X. If this happens, we're going to address it. We're going to finish the job, but we're going to go into the "film room" and figure out how to make it not happen again.

(23:54):
When the file comes in, we contact everybody involved. We meet with the client first, and then it's an update to the builder agent and the buyer agent so they both know. If you only give it to one, the other might think something is wrong. Sticking to that avoids the random check-in calls that interrupt everything else. Solid fundamentals like that create an environment for production because you don't get pulled away for menial tasks or distractions.

Jake Vermillion (24:57):
And you guys are hyper-focused on file quality. You shared with me that when you submit a file, you have a 90% plus pull-through rate on fallout deals. That's insane. You're dogging that upfront process to make sure the data is input correctly, and you're spending the necessary time to understand the customer's goals.

Phil Crescenzo (25:30):
And a commitment to a "fast no."

Jake Vermillion (25:33):
Tell me more about that.

Phil Crescenzo (25:36):
If you're going to come through as fulfillment, give us a chance. You owe it to the partner to know on day one if it's a guideline miss. I say to the builder, "If you're going to put something on this lot, the elevation is either going to fit or it's not." Guidelines are the same for us. I come in with clarity and reasons why we are focusing on specific overlays. We're not trying to undermine anything; we're just being clear. My team gives consistent messaging.

Jake Vermillion (26:21):
Shawn, you mentioned you're a fan of digital applications. At Mortgage Champions, we teach that opportunity comes in via an immediate phone call of 15 to 20 minutes to understand goals and complete the application on the phone. What does that look like for you if you're allowing the customer to self-serve?

Shawn Malkou (26:57):
Success for me involves taking that longer phone call. Some people's initial mortgage consultations are 50 minutes, and some are three minutes. There's no set time target; it's about whether I understand my borrower enough to offer a world-class experience. I take five calls a day and they're the exact same five calls. I care more about understanding their goals than their financial situation on that first call. They might tell me they make 10 grand a year and want to buy a million-dollar house; I'm still having them fill out an application.

(28:26):
The reason I do this is to understand where they're at. If they're ready to buy, great. If not, I've got 'em in my system and our CRM. I want buy-in from them. Anyone can have a conversation on the phone and say they want to buy a house, but if they can't spend three to five minutes doing an application online, they don't really want that goal. I know I've got some buy-in when they finish it. From there, we roll out our process.

Jake Vermillion (29:07):
Top producers know their numbers better than anyone else. Phil, you've done a hundred million for six consecutive years. What are the actual metrics and numbers you're watching day-to-day to gauge if you're on track?

Phil Crescenzo (29:37):
The online app is just entering data. There hasn't been a conversation or understanding. I did so many 1003s that I made it a conversation and knew the next page was coming. The online app is step one, but there still needs to be that dialogue. One thing I'm measuring is our partner communication. We are big on growing partners and sticking with 'em. I'm looking at app activity, tracking percentages, and looking at our projections. I can get a lot just from app activity and our pull-through percentage.

Jake Vermillion (30:46):
Shawn, what numbers are you measuring? Does subscribers and minutes watched matter?

Shawn Malkou (30:55):
Every Monday we have a leaderboard report that goes out to our company. The metrics tracked are: what is your app count in the last 30 days? How many emails have you sent? What are your current locks? We focus on apps and emails because those lead to filling your pipeline. You cannot control when someone gets under contract, but you can control the conversations you're having and the prospecting activities. In my business, if I don't have 30 apps in the last 30 days, I am way behind. My goal is to get to 45. Then we track the percentages of fundings, so I know what I need to hit in terms of prospecting.

Jake Vermillion (32:11):
We say at a healthy sales organization that "an app a day keeps the manager away." What technologies are mission-critical to your process today? Is there anything at this conference that really gets you excited?

Phil Crescenzo (32:59):
Right now, it's time-saving tools. I'm always trying ones like Otter, Fathom, or AI for email sorting. There are a lot of all-in-one solutions that tie everything together. AI is not going to replace certain steps, but it's going to make the originator more efficient. I'm looking for efficiency tools that don't interfere with my existing process.

Shawn Malkou (33:51):
The biggest focus for us is communication. When I created the company, I noticed Better was using something called Front for email. Almost no other mortgage company uses that, but it streamlines our communication tremendously. Anything that streamlines something we are already doing is what we're looking for. We're not looking to replace a process because our industry is an art, not a science. There's an art to the deal that you can't remove completely; you can just boost it.

Jake Vermillion (34:43):
I wrote some questions I think the audience might want to know. Phil, outside of our industry, what are some businesses you've learned from that changed how you approach yours?

Phil Crescenzo (35:12):
Construction. Working with builders and realizing that a builder is going to project better than any loan officer. They are amazing at long-term prediction. Watching how they make decisions allowed me to be a better originator to solve the problems they actually had.

Jake Vermillion (35:44):
Shawn, how about you?

Shawn Malkou (35:47):
I try to stay laser-focused on our industry, but I like to relate our roles to commercial real estate sales teams. It's about spending your life working at it but doing specific things day in and day out.

Jake Vermillion (36:13):
If you could only have one, which would you choose: a CRM or a point of sale?

Phil Crescenzo (36:19):
Point of sale, because it's front-facing.

Jake Vermillion (36:21):
Which would drive your business more: spending more time on the phone or less?

Phil Crescenzo (36:28):
More time with the right activities.

Shawn Malkou (36:32):
Conversations lead to more business.

Jake Vermillion (36:38):
What's one aspect of your business that could be better?

Phil Crescenzo (36:46):
Communication. We do a good job, but it can always be better.

Shawn Malkou (36:52):
Communication. We're selling a commodity at the end of the day—everyone has a loan—so whoever can communicate the best is going to win more business.

Jake Vermillion (37:16):
What's one change you've made this year that you are already seeing results from?

Phil Crescenzo (37:21):
Writing more things down.

Shawn Malkou (37:26):
Not just tracking metrics but holding each other accountable to them regardless of where you're at in your career.

Jake Vermillion (37:41):
What would you rather have AI do for you: handle inbound or proactively outbound?

Phil Crescenzo (37:47):
Inbound.

Shawn Malkou (37:55):
If I had to choose one, probably inbound.

Jake Vermillion (38:03):
Since we just had a rate cut, would you rather have rates be higher with less competition or rates be lower with more competition?

Phil Crescenzo (38:14):
I'd rather 'em be higher within reason—affordable, but not at COVID levels. That was not fun.

Shawn Malkou (38:24):
When rates went up, competition went down tremendously and it was awesome for top producers. Personally, I would say higher too.

Jake Vermillion (38:45):
Gentlemen, thank you so much for the conversation. I hope this has been helpful in unpacking the mindset and approach of a top originator. Heidi, are you going to introduce the next part?

Heidi (39:06):
I want to give Phil his award. Phil, thank you for being a top producer in 2025 and thank you for the session. I love having people with different points of view talking it out. I'm going to give you the award, we'll do a quick photo, and then we'll call up the judges to announce the winner of the Innovation Challenge.

Jake Vermillion (39:45):
A round of applause for the panel.