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Joe Welu (
I am joined with me here today by Andrew Pullman, EVP of Marketing Guaranteed Rate, And we're gonna talk about some very specific things, a case study, uh, with some tactical things, but as well, we're gonna talk a little bit about strategy at gr guaranteed rate at the enterprise level, and how they're really driving the ability for their loan officers to have true differentiation in the market. Right? Something we talk about a lot more important than ever right now. So, Andrew, maybe let's start out a little bit on talking about from a philosophy standpoint. There's, you know, there's a lot of companies that I think don't necessarily take a, a firm stance on whether they should be doing things on behalf of loan officers or if they should just do corporate level branding, but maybe not translate it down. How do you guys think about that and maybe talk us through kind of how you think about it as an enterprise strategy.
(
And, and the reason I think it's really important, I think all of you will find this valuable, um, guaranteed rate you may or may not know, has more loan officers in the top 100 and Scott guide than any other company.
Andrew Pohlmann (
That's right. Yeah. And I think that's the right when we look at our philosophy around what we call this winning formula for loan officers, at least in my group, and I would guess in any other group in our company, we absolutely obsess about helping make loan officers, uh, successful. And a lot of it has to do with it. We are firmly a retail lender, right? That's our, our singular focus. And so the way we've defined this winning formula is, um, this model around a, um, operations pod that makes them very, very efficient, powered by lots of great technology. Even some, uh, some folks from Gateless, uh, here that help drive that.
(
Um, we also have a, uh, flexible pricing model for, uh, loan officers. But the two pieces that we'll talk a little bit about today is, uh, business development, which a number of tools there around helping them find leads. Um, a whole event team around building, uh, events that helps 'em connect with, um, agents and referral partners. And then of course, what we call dynamic marketing, which is powered by lots of different tools, but at the center that is what we call rack Red Arrow, uh, connect, which is essentially our word for the, the total expert platform. And that philosophy, like you said, Joe, is, you know, we've come a long way where loan officers in many cases, even, you know, by the time I started a couple years ago, um, we gave them all the tools, but largely allowed them to execute whatever they'd like.
(
But that, as you know right. Makes them, that's a tough thing to ask a loan officer to be a marketer.
Joe Welu (
How did that work, by the way, when you
Andrew Pohlmann (
Very well, Yeah. <laugh>. No. So again, making that transition part of, of it was right, we had to develop a lot of trust with them on are we a team that thinks and breathes like they do to focus on, we're gonna help you close loans, we're gonna help you build, uh, relationships, but also great creative. My, um, my counterpart guy named Charlie Wickman, who's our chief creative officer, builds just great, great content that they can use, but then it's how do we execute on your, uh, behalf? And having worked at, um, a lot of other lenders, that's a tough transition for some lenders to have with their loan officers. Some are only doing it, um, lot, uh, direct lenders for instance, some allow all the, uh, responsibility on the loan officer.
(
And we've kind of played that happy medium. And then some, some recent campaigns like the one we'll talk about where we've done a lot of heavy lifting for them and let them be the rainmakers, um, and interact with,
Joe Welu (
You're, you're essentially teeing them up.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yes.
Joe Welu (
Right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yep.
Joe Welu (
So there's a lot of companies that I think struggle with this. And the reason they struggle is you've got high producing sales people that very entrepreneurial, and in many cases they, they believe right or wrong that they should control the marketing funnel. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they should control the campaigns that they're better marketers. And you guys have taken the approach and said, we're gonna be, we're gonna number one, hire great people like you to have the strategic vision.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Thank you Joe. Appreciate that.
Joe Welu (
On Yeah. On how you can unlock value for them. But how did you get to a point where you took the firm's stance of saying, Hey, we know what's gonna make you successful and we're going to make things happen for you?
(
How did you take that leap? What was the
Andrew Pohlmann (
So we, we, uh, just to be clear, we still have hundreds of assets, whether or not it's email, social,
Joe Welu (
They still have tremendous flexibility
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. That they can push out. Um, they can customize in many respects, a lot of our top, uh, loan pro, uh, loan officers, they work with us to create their own custom content. And so in some cases they will take the reins there. But we've also found that having great enterprise campaigns, whether or not it's digital or from the loan officer, and that's where I think the the difference might lie, is when we push things out on their behalf, it's with their branding, it's with their Right. We have a piece that gets developed.
Joe Welu (
And you're very clear about that. Yes. Right. From what I noticed, and you're also very clear saying, we're not trying to dictate what you need to do or don't do.
(
This is to enhance and augment what you're already doing. Yeah, yeah. That right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah, for sure. And, and again, it's a, uh, it's, we're not asking people to take a leap of faith with us. It came from we need to demonstrate that we develop great content that we can identify, uh, agents or referral partners in their market that they have worked with, haven't worked with, um, and market on their behalf. But then we also need to show that those campaigns are working as well and driving, um, context.
Joe Welu (
So, so let's get a little bit into the, the meat of the case study. So we, we wake up obviously, and instead of money falling from the sky, uh, like I think there's some of them that believe that was gonna last forever, and they realized, well, wait,
Andrew Pohlmann (
A spring market's coming.
Joe Welu (
Wait a second, the spring market's coming and it's like August.
(
It's not happening. So, right. So you guys were very proactive in saying, Okay, this is a different environment. We're gonna double down and we're, we're gonna number one help you guys with some air cover, meaning your loan officers with some air cover, your VPs as you call them. And then we're, we're really gonna help you guys grow your market, share this environment. There's a, a piece that started with the agent referral partners, which is a huge source of business for you guys. And then there's a piece that started with going directly out to their databases. Correct?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yes.
Joe Welu (
So there's two pronged strategy. So maybe let's start with, um, kind of day one you had the, the mindset of we need to differentiate, help these guys differentiate. Talk me through the framework, like the initial messaging. Um, you have some great creative, talk us through the framework and then how that kind of made it down into tactical execution, right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. So again, started really with the, that obsessive approach on we need to help, uh, support them in building relationships with, uh, referral partners. So, uh, one of the things we did was we, we have a platform, I think you're familiar with it, uh, Silver Swan, where we identify, um, agents in our market, again, across the country that have or have not worked with, uh, guaranteed, uh, rate. Um, there's other great platforms in the as well. I know, uh, Core Logics market track also does a, you know, similar identification. And those, uh, agents. Then we started off with a, uh, digital campaign that was really guaranteed rate in general, but to,
Joe Welu (
To the agents.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. To directly to agents, both social and, uh, digital, which, um, focused on this notion of the best. And you teed it up earlier on that in a market like this where you have frustrated buyers, you have a very, very competitive marketplace that you wanna work with the best.
(
Now, of course, right? Our compliance, uh, folks wanted to make sure that we could claim the best. And so, you know, trying to be humble, but your stat around Scotsman's was what we leveraged on, Hey, we have the most, uh, uh, loan officers in that, uh, top hundred
Joe Welu (
Based on that publication, you most productive retail originators in the country, right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Right. And so that's where it started for about a month or so where we did some great air cover for loan officers. But then where it really started to hit their level was we took those same agents, uh, assign them to, uh, loan officers across the country, um, and providing them with leads. Some of them had, they had worked with before, some of 'em, uh, they haven't. And that then drove both email and social from the loan officer directly to those...
Joe Welu (
to, to the agents.
Andrew Pohlmann (
I'm sorry, to the the agents. Yes. To those agents.
Joe Welu (
I want to draw this clarification because this is very different than what we see a lot of organizations do. They will market to the agent community, the broker community, but they don't necessarily segment, uh, like you guys do. And they don't get really clear and concise on which loan officers are paired up with which individual agents you guys go. Not only do you, are you clear and concise about the group of agents you're targeting, you don't just spray the entire 2 million,
Andrew Pohlmann (
right? Right.
Joe Welu (
You're very clear and concise on which agents you're going after. But then another step on that is you actually go all the way to pairing one agent to one loan officer thousands of times.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Right.
Joe Welu (
How do you, number one that's, is that unpopular with, because a lot of those guys, they think they own every agent.
Andrew Pohlmann (
So the how is magic <laugh>? Yes. It's not, again, it's not always the most popular. Again, we all know that, uh, loan officers are highly entrepreneurial. They will reach out to, uh, anyone agents, uh, the same. We don't mandate a one for one, but at least for the purposes of this campaign, we had to
Joe Welu (
So for purposes of this campaign, yes. You're not going all the way in saying, Hey, this is in your database, This is in your database. You're just for this air cover, this campaign. You're, you're taking this approach,
Andrew Pohlmann (
Right? Yeah. Cuz that way we didn't have the same agent getting, uh, the same, uh, messaging from multiple, uh, loan officers. Um, again, part of it is on the agent and the consumer decide who they want to and potentially could be different based on the transaction. Sure. Um, or the personality. But it was very intentional to, um, ensure there was a one for one assignment.
(
And yeah, some of them aren't popular, but it was also a, um, I think we made it clear that this would be the most effective for them as well to make sure that the campaign was executed, uh, like that. And then they could own that relationship on the follow ups. Cuz every one of these emails that went out, if a agent engaged with it, it would trigger another campaign. It would trigger, uh, a task within the platform to be able to call the, uh, the agent back. So in order to do that, you had to have that, that one for one, um, and great success. Right. We had, again, I I would say it's, I don't know if it's more the creative, uh, which was developed or, or more of the campaign, but we had, you know, 60% open rates, uh, on some of these
Joe Welu (
for agents
Andrew Pohlmann (
emails for agents.
(
Yes. Which is nuts. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah.
Joe Welu (
And I want to talk about that a little bit because, um, a lot of people spray information out there about their company and their programs and their products. Are you willing to, to share what the, you know, what kind of the secret was to messaging a little bit or anything?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah, I think,
Joe Welu (
I mean, I you on the spot too much.
Andrew Pohlmann (
No, that's alright. I mean, I would guess it's all out there, right? So someone looks on LinkedIn or Facebook or write that messaging is out there and maybe somebody, somebody even got one right. That might be out here from us as well, given market share. But it really focused in on what's happening right now. It's a very competitive market and we had, you know, very simple Crip crisp message around if you have frustrated buyers, if you are a frustrated buyer, if you're buying your first home, um, you're trying to understand this work with the best.
Joe Welu (
So one as a recovering real estate agent many years ago, um, if somebody
Andrew Pohlmann (
Sorry about that.
Joe Welu (
Yeah, I know. Don't hold it against me. So you got so specific on understanding really what is painful right now for my agents. Okay. And I think this is such, such an important component. Simple, but it's powerful. And you honed in on do you have frustrated buyers? Hell yeah, they do. Right? Like,
Andrew Pohlmann (
right.
Joe Welu (
But, but that immediately hit the bullseye. It wasn't a bunch of marketing speak, it wasn't a bunch of, Hey, we've got this product or this, you know, this piece of this feature for our digital more. It was really what do you care about and what's hitting you in the face every day? And that was, the buyers are frustrated. Right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
And I think that's another transition that I, I I believe, and again, with a lot of conversations we have with, uh, LO's, that they've seen that the product pricing approach could all of us have the same products, right?
(
All of us are competitive in pricing, that that's not gonna be the differentiator. It's, um, attacking that need. And in fact, it was interesting even in some of the, the demos yesterday, right? The feedback around what pain are you trying to solve? And that's exactly what it is, is solve a pain. Um, and make sure, because we also had a, uh, a consumer campaign that had very similar messaging rather than the do you have frustrate buyers? Is are you frustrated Right? Within this? But it honed right on exactly what's happening right now. Um, especially in some markets that are still very, very competitive. People are frustrated, inventory is still low, uh, and even as, as rates are rising, thankfully not at this very moment. Um, but that becomes really frustrating for people that are buying their first home.
Joe Welu (
Absolutely. And I think, I think what's, what struck me is really smart and, and a little bit unique, but really smart, was you guys didn't look at this as saying, Hey, let's go do a campaign to realtors and let's go do a campaign to consumers.
(
It was let's do a campaign to help our originators differentiate. And there was two components to that. There was two really pillars to that, which is the consumer piece and the agent piece. And you had very distinct messaging, but it, it's related, right? But it was very distinct messaging for both audience and it was one holistic campaign. Correct. Is that the way you think about it?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. Again, and for anybody's even had, you know, the smallest bit of marketing background, it's a having a consistent campaign that you can leverage. And when you get to the point where both our referral partners, uh, consumers continue to see that same messaging around, um, work with the best, now more than ever, that all comes together. And I think that's what our, uh, our originators also appreciated, was not only their own marketing coming out on, uh, from with their, uh, individual branding, but it was having the, the enterprise air cover to give them reach that they couldn't ordinarily get, um, on their own.
(
So we're certainly helping that. This kind of sets the stage for what we're planning and doing in the future. And it's a little bit of a roadmap for us is great digital and social air cover then execute a campaign from the loan officer. They'll continue to have things that they push out, um, on their, on their own. Um, we have another, you know, big campaign, uh, coming up, um, uh, this month around a, you know, a full process in, uh, Spanish. Um, so all that same best campaign is also available in Spanish as well. So for those loan officers that so not only do you have it, you know, across multiple channels, but you also have it now in multiple languages. Yeah. Um, as well.
Joe Welu (
Yeah. So when we talk about, um, multiple channels, because I think a lot of people, a lot of organizations that we see, I think our company is even guilty of this.
(
We, we think we're gonna do something on email and it doesn't necessarily tie to the other, uh, really touch points or points of engagement. You guys looked at this and said, Okay, we're going to, we know the audience that we're gonna go after mm-hmm. <affirmative> both consumer and agent. And because social's pretty sophisticated, you can create custom audiences mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Right. And you can put your messaging in front of those individual audiences. So you started there correct. In advance before any email went out, Right? You started getting familiarity with the message, uh, on each of those audiences, both agent and consumer. You were running, uh, targeted custom audience campaigns on social to basically what I kind of call season those, those audience getting basically impressions, right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. And I mean, and again, no question. Even though we ha a large share, most agents in the country haven't worked with us, right?
(
That's just the, the kind of just math. And so what we wanted to have was even those agents that work with us, seasoning them great term in terms of that, then when the, the loan officer campaign went out, they can say, Hey, you guys are everywhere. I see you everywhere. Right. In my search results. Um, and especially those that haven't worked with us, um, over the last year or more, they then have, uh, more familiarity with us as well. Now it, it also helps, right, that we have other air cover in some of our great sports marketing that we do Sure. Around the, around the country. But very specifically to this campaign, it was about, you know, providing, uh, messaging to both, uh, agents and consumers. And then when the loan officer engages with them, they're like, It's not a new campaign. I've seen this.
(
You know,
Joe Welu (
even if it's subconscious, they're like, Wait a second. Right? I've seen, you know, work with the best right now more than ever, whatever the messaging is. I've seen that before. Sublimating, they're, they're seeing that because you've been running it, was it a month before they get into Yeah, a month before. So about a month before you're hitting 'em. Right? And then the email goes out and the results have been really incredible engagement from just the initial previous.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. And just a note, since you mentioned social as well. Um, two, two levers there. One of them was, um, enterprise messaging around the campaign, but through the, the platform through total expert as well, loan officers, we pushed out social on their behalf. We have a, a, a service called, uh, GR social that a loan officer has three to five, uh, social messages that go out of, you know, different kinds.
(
This, this campaign. Some are products, some are general, but three to five messages a week. And then they augment with social on their own where they can schedule social. Some of it might be, uh, some campaign materials that we provided them. And some of it might just be organic content that they do on their own, right? They went to a, a broker open, they went to some event. Um, and all of that together then helps them have some control. So again, we, we still believe that it is absolutely a responsibility for the loan officer to brand themselves cuz people buy from people they don't buy from companies. Um, and giving them the tools to make it easy for them to schedule once a month and get out. They go make rain, um, and let the the tech do the work for them.
Joe Welu (
And you guys are really intentional about when, when you're engaging with your sales organization being really specific on why you're doing certain things.
(
And from what I understand, uh, I'm gonna summarize, so correct me, but it's really about, hey, we want you to be doing the highest producing highest productivity activities that you can possibly do, which is being in front of customers, being in front of realtors, right? And everything else is put into this engine that makes it all happen. Is that an accurate way to, to talk about it?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. Yeah. And I think again, if it's, if, if anyone has ever heard, uh, Victor Elli, our CEO talk about, um, you know, the, the infrastructure that we put in place for loan officers, it's exactly that. Is do things that are, you know, you pick the number $500 an hour activities, not activities that don't lead to your success. So it's everything from marketing to operations to business development, a team that helps set appointments for, uh, for loan officers, let the platform work for you.
Joe Welu (
And when we say platform ob obviously work Yeah. It's component of that, but it's multiple things, right? Right. And part of that platform is you go all the way down to having business development people that are helping tee up opportunities for them. Is that, is that correct?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. One of my colleagues, uh, Jenny Sepulveda runs, uh, what's a group called, uh, business development. Uh, and they, um, help make appointments for loan officers. So it's a, it's a service that's provided to loan officers that either those, uh, leads that have assigned to them, or again, through our, what we call this, uh, swan platform, they can identify other agents by, um, by loan type, by geography, kind of this, uh, this matching process. And then they help them set those appointments, uh, reach out into the, into the market, um, and they, they show up, right?
(
And same, same goes with events, right? We have, uh, part of my team is a, uh, loan officer events team that we set up, you know, either small events, big events all over the country. Yeah.
Joe Welu (
This doesn't have to be a massively expensive, I mean, you guys do invest obviously heavily in the brand nationally, but, but also, um, it doesn't have to be this huge expense you're doing events of, of all kinds.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. I mean, again, I mean, yes, we have these, these big ones we call gr paloozas where the, you know, hundreds of agents and, and bands and things like that. But the most effective ones are, you know, three to five people, right. Where you can, they're very targeted. You can have an intimate conversation with someone, but part, part of the trick, right? Just like the, the campaigns we're pushing out make it easy for loan officers to do what they do well, right?
(
They don't enjoy sending out invites. They don't enjoy contacting a venue to schedule even a lunch in. Right? They wanna show up, Right. Let their culture personality do what they do best. Yeah.
Joe Welu (
They don't want to have to what, what we call kind of the logistics, right? Of marketing the logistics of an event strategy. Uh, they just want you to say, Hey, show up here, here's the, here's the, the framework and then rents and repeat. I mean, you guys have been masterful at replicating hugely productive teams. I mean, you've got these a hundred million plus, I don't know how many you have, but it's a lot, a hundred million plus originators. And you have a blueprint. And I know this is just a small component of that blueprint, but it's, it's really saying, Hey, we actually have the best practices and you get buy in from a lot of your, a lot of your loan officers that maybe wouldn't normally buy in if companies weren't as maybe confident.
(
Is that the right word? Cause you guys are really confident about your strategy.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Some of it all is just, you know, a maniacal focus. Again, having worked with a lot of, you know, great, uh, bank owned mortgage companies, there are, we, we only have one priority, right? We have our loan officers, right? And so, so it's, it's I think a lot easier when, uh, uh, our CEO only worries about retail lending and,
Joe Welu (
and knowing Victor, I mean, he's, he's the, the best at terms of just obsessively focusing on then he was a loan officer, right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. I mean, he spent most of his career, uh, writing loans. And so I think that's, again, it's not a, it's not a complicated format, but I just know there are lots of competing priorities and lots of different companies. And so we do have the, let's call it the, the luxury of focus both on direct to retail and through our joint ventures that, uh, we can focus just on catering to who I call my client is our loan officers.
Joe Welu (
Yeah. And so, when a lot of organizations think about how do we help our loan officers differentiate and be successful in, in this environment, um, you can give them all of the tools, you can give them all of the messaging, but if you're not actually making things happen for them in some form of automation, right? It's just not gonna get done at the level. Like, you're just not gonna get the scale. You agree, right?
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. I mean, again, you have to have the right tools, uh, in place. And I would also add that, um, you know, there isn't a, I mean, literally every day there is some training that's taking place on whether or not it's on, uh, rack or our total expert, uh, platform or all the other digital tools that we have, or how do you engage with events. So there's also just the, you know, a whole ecosystem around how do we increase adoption on some of these tools.
(
Cuz we know that's, I mean, everybody that's here, especially from a provider perspective, knows that's a huge challenge that you can, you know, put all these great platforms in place, um, provide them to, uh, your teams, but do they engage with them? And if you have some, and thankfully, right, when I looked at, uh, data just becoming, uh, before I came over here, um, thankfully the highest adoption that we have on the platforms are our highest producers. So it's a great way for us to go back
Joe Welu (
correlation and access.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Right? Exactly. I think not, I don't that, right. Exactly. So that's, it's a great message for those that, right? Cause we have just like any lender, right? We have a whole range of, you know, those that are closing single digit millions a year to those that are closing billions of year. Um, but thankfully what we can show is the higher you are on that spectrum, the more likely you are to use all the tools that we have in place and all the services.
(
So, so it does that is help build that.
Joe Welu (
I mean, I think for a lot of organizations that maybe struggle to, to, you know, run the, the playbook of getting adoption, having, you know, an organization like you guys is saying, Hey, we have the highest producing overall, and the way you're elevating some of those middle producers or lower producers up to that next level is saying, and I'm summarizing, but is saying, Hey, we know this is what the very best do. Okay? They run playbooks, they run automation, and you get buy-in based on tying it back to
Andrew Pohlmann (
we're gonna add you to our recruiting team.
Joe Welu (
Oh, maybe, maybe that's perfect. But, but you get buyin based on tying it back to, Right, hey, you know, a hundred million, 500 million producer, this is what they do. Right? Right. Maybe you at 10 million in production or 20 million in production, maybe you know better, but most likely not.
(
Is that Yeah, well that's an over exaggeration.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. I wanna make sure, again, it's not all, it's not all grounded on marketing. Certainly, you know, we think we do a good job there, but it's really that whole, that whole formula around with the great, what we call this pod, great ops platform, uh, great pricing and products, great business development support, great marketing that creates this holistic view. Um, but it is, it is a commitment, right? It's a huge commitment to provide those tools. And then a huge commitment also on daily training, uh, and daily follow up. We even have a, a dashboard now for, uh, branch managers, regional managers, division managers, uh, and our, uh, sales leadership to see across every tool what is, uh, utilization, right? So whether or not it's, are people sending out postcards? Are people sending out emails? Are they using, uh, some customer intelligence tools?
(
How many of them are doing events so that they then have the tools to be able to coach their team to say, Are you using the tools? Now again, it's a little bit, hey, if we're investing a lot, we want people to use it. But, um, having sales managers to be able to see those, um, that utilization down to an individual level gives them great coaching opportunities as well.
Joe Welu (
Yeah. And, and you, so you can be proactive at driving the behaviors. And I, and I think, uh, one of the things that you guys, um, I've observed over the years, you guys are so consistent with your approach. You don't, you don't launch an initiative and then look at it three months from now and say, Oh, kind of what happened. It's very consistent.
Andrew Pohlmann (
We do that sometimes too, though.
Joe Welu (
Well, maybe. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair.
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. Again, I think that's a, again, we're, I think we're getting better, better. Part of it is the environment we have because we compete against, you know, assuming they're lenders in the room, obviously, right? We compete against a lot. Um, and even, right, we as big as we're, we're still single digit market share, right? So we're still competing against lots of great lenders, lots of great relationships. And the comment I made earlier about that, it's really two people that are doing business sometimes more than a brand that's doing business with an agent. Um, we have to play that fine line between yes, we're a lender, you know, clearly that supports loan officers, but we also have to help our loan officers brand themselves and how do they look different. So it is a combination of these great enterprise campaigns, but then also equipping them with how can you, uh, create your own message in the marketplace.
(
Cuz ultimately when they have luncheon or breakfast or dinner, whatever, with a referral partner, it's that those two humans getting together,
Joe Welu (
It's two humans. Yeah. The, the enterprise strategy is just to help elevate them. Right? Right. And you're very clear about that, right? Like it's, the enterprise strategy elevates them so that when they're going in and having those conversations, it it's just a better
Andrew Pohlmann (
Yeah. And that's, that's the, you know, there's a slide I'm thinking in, in my head right now, part of this, you know, winning formula during our recruiting that it's this, this CEO mindset that they are running their own business. And so I think there's, you know, having also been in organizations where the company and the brand is almost more important than the producer. Um, again, having a better balance there and allowing the, the loan officer decide when do they wield, which, right.
(
There's some where they say, Hey, I'm part of this, uh, this great organization, this great platform, Look at the tools we being in place. But then they also need to have the flexibility to brand themselves, um, as a producer, as an originator. And we know just like, and as you know, uh, from being, uh, an agent, they are, uh, very proud of themselves as their brand, as they should be. Um, and letting them decide, you know, which one they represent, um, at the time.
Joe Welu (
Awesome. Well, thank you, Andrew, for sharing some of the, the best practices you guys have and specifically around the campaign strategy. Really appreciate
Andrew Pohlmann (
Pleasure. Thanks for being here. Thanks for supporting us.
Joe Welu (
All right, buddy. Thank you.