Transcription:
Heidi Patalano (
Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the Digital Marketing Playbook for Gen Z. Home buyers like to introduce our moderator, Kristin Messerly,
Kristin Messerli (
Awesome, Thank you guys so much for being here. this is going to be a really interesting panel, and I hope we can get through just a fraction of the fascinating content we have to share with you today. I have an incredible group of panelists here. Margot Ettedgui. Okay. whoa, It's getting exciting already So, Margot is a TikTok influencer. She was one of the very first people to be on TikTok talking about mortgages. She has over 300,000 followers there, over 50,000 on Instagram. She's a mortgage broker and very successful and awesome person. We've also got Greg Sher, from NFM Lending, who has built an influencer platform at NFM Lending that has brought in a lot of, or several successful influencers in the mortgage industry, and built a really great, lead aggregation platform through that. So, we'll talk about that. And then we've got Alex Kustishin, who is the founder of Sales Boomerang, and now Chief Visionary Officer at Sales Boomerang and Mortgage Coach, who is just a brilliant marketer. so we are going to have a great discussion today. So I want us to start by talking about Gen Z. Just to frame it up, these are people under the age of 25 years old. So as a very young population, why do we need to even have this discussion yet? A lot of, there's some people that are buying homes around 22 to 25, but the, for the most part, we're looking at older populations. So, Alex, let's start with you. Why is this an important topic and what are some of the major things we need to think about?
Alex Kustishin (
Well, I mean, I would say that first, how many of you were thinking and having this question? Well, how about this? Raise your hand, and I typically make you all say I, but let's do this this way. How many of you have been in the industry for a decade or so? Somebody raised their hands. Okay, great. Got lots of hands. A decade ago, were you thinking about marketing to millennials? You're like, That's too soon. So who said, Yup. Somebody said, Yup. That's good. You're the only one out of everyone to raise their hands. Yeah. You know why? Because the same question comes up 25. Why are we marketing to 25 year olds? They can't afford anything. 24 year olds, 23 year olds. That is the wrong way of thinking, right? I believe the statistic is, and I wrote something down, about how much spending power they have right now, What's the craziest statistic you have it?
Kristin Messerli (
40% of consumer spending.
Alex Kustishin (
40% of consumer spending are people 25 years and younger. Think about that. So if you're not thinking about it and you're sitting back and going, Hey, come on, they're too young. Why do we need to market to them? They don't have the money. They're not gonna do anything right now. You're gonna find yourself again thinking, How come we didn't get there? So my point is this. Let's not repeat what we've done before. Let's not question this. This generation thinks about saving money more than any other generation's ever thought about it. We're gonna get to that when it comes to marketing. So, this is actually the generation you should be really, really focusing on. who else focuses on this generation? Coca-Cola. They're pretty good at marketing , right? So focus that's the thing. Do not let where they are now make you not believe that they're not gonna go somewhere else and be the biggest spenders of this business so.
Kristin Messerli (
Yeah. Great And, as one of the biggest shifts that we all know has occurred is in the way that we use social media and technology, One of the stats I found interesting was that 41% of Gen Z spend three plus hours on tech per day. Which isn't surprising, I think to most of us, but in comparison to millennials at this age, they were spending 22% of, or 22% of them were spending three plus hours per day. So, there's obviously been a huge shift in the way that we use technology, mobile devices, how we use social media. So, I want us to talk about social media, and of course we have a couple of really incredible experts on the topic. Margo, I wanna start with you. of course, she's built a an incredible platform through TikTok and Instagram. Can you share a little bit on how you have built a business through these platforms? Just generally what that's meant to you for your business?
Margot Ettedgui (
Yeah, So actually going back to a little bit what Alex was saying. my first client was a 22 year old child actor who purchased a 1.2 million home . And as soon as I figured that out, I was like, where are they spending their time? Because I think I've got a little bit of a niche here where these young clients think that they're not bankable. They're making income and ways that millennials and baby boomers were not thinking of before. I mean, they're making passive income side hustles. And that created a need for content, in the non-traditional world, which is really what I kind of double niche down on with my community of what I've built. And I think that TikTok specifically, see, you're saying millennials and Gen Z are spending about three plus hours on tech. TikTok is a very interesting place where people are spending an average of 10 hours a day on there. So, when the question of marketing came into play, I was like, I don't think that the email marketing is gonna work anymore because people don't wanna feel like they're being sold stuff, and they're not checking their emails to be sold on anything. I think the place to be is where they're spending the most time on, which is TikTok, which is social media, which is a place that really breaks down all of those walls of connectability and really allows people to directly connect and learn from influencers, agents, loan officers, and lenders. And it's an incredible place.
Kristin Messerli (
Yeah. And before we move on from this, because I, I think it's really interesting as you, you're talking about needing to shift to the way that people are, capturing information. You talked a little bit before this panel about your content strategy and how, what your strategy looks like and how quickly things shift. Can you speak to how you think about your content strategy?
Margot Ettedgui (
Yeah. So, as I was telling Kristen, I was like, this is a tough question for me because I don't really have much of a strategy when it comes to what am I gonna do for my next move. I really live into the present moment and understand with each transaction, with each communication that I have, with referral partners, with clients, what exactly are there pain points in that moment? And what can I create content to create a solution for that? and I think really living organically in the present moment and showing people, how updated you are with the current situation is really what's going to make that difference in terms of people that are precalculating and producing content that is too thought out, that again, feels too salesy. And I think that with the content strategy of sometimes not really having a strategy, but more so just feeling in the moment, creating organically in the moment, is what allowed me to be successful. But I think will allow really anyone in this industry to be successful is create in the moment, create accordingly to the issues transactions that you see happen. What went wrong, what went right, what can you create accordingly to that? And I think that's very important for a lot of people to think about. It's not so much how much, technology do I need and cameras and videographers. It's really not that. It really is as simple as grabbing your phone and creating content authentically. And in that moment.
Kristin Messerli (
And this was really surprising to me, and I think something very important for us to recognize, especially in marketing to Gen Z, it's so important that everything is about authenticity. And, and that you are saying in the moment around the trends and content because people see right through it, You know? And especially as you think about millennials too and everyone, I think we've be, we've become a very distrusting population, which is what we talked about on our panel yesterday. And the more authentic you can be, the better you're gonna connect with them. Absolutely. So, I think there's a lot more we could dive into on content strategy, but I wanna go to, greg and alex.
Alex Kustishin (
Let me jump in for one second, because I think the challenge is, is exactly what you're talking about, Kristin. You can't try to be authentic, Right? Exactly Right. You can't try, you just have to be in 66% of Gen Zs don't trust this industry. Don't trust it because we try to be authentic and they're like, You're trying, You're trying too hard. The other thing that you said that I think needs a lot of mention here, look, we can learn a lot from very successful companies a lot. And what you're talking about right now is what a small company by the name of McDonald's did a long time ago. They found that real estate in places that are gonna be super busy is a smart place to invest. You found TikTok 10 hours a day. Okay. She found the real estate that's getting the most foot traffic, She put herself right there. That is what it's gonna take right there. But it's brilliant thinking on your part. It's amazing.
Margot Ettedgui (
Thank you.
Kristin Messerli (
So, for us to move into something that I think is gonna be really practical for us in this room, Greg having built out a platform for influencers to be successful in this space, I was asking, how do you turn these views into actual leads? Like, how does this actually become something that's productive for your business? And you had a really interesting response to that, and I'd like you to, let's just dive right into that one. I
Greg Sher (
Don't remember, can you remind me? Just joking So, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. So we have, 11 influencers at the company currently. And, it's the number one thing that you have to be mindful of is that, these are first time home buyers. These are very, young, inexperienced people and they are already skeptical. You heard the statistics. So you have to have, you have to have the nurturing piece in place. You have to make sure you're going to be able to handle the lead flow when it comes in. And the way we do it is by, making sure we take everyone down whatever journey, they signed up for. So, we sort of have an intake form in the beginning where we find out exactly where they are in their journey. And our mantra is to meet them where they are. And it's one thing to say that it's an entirely different thing to deliver it. So if you're part of a company right now that wants to build out a platform, like we have, we've made a lot of mistakes cuz we were one of the first to do it. So you can cut, eight to 10 months off of the errors that I made by building sort of reverse engineering it and making sure you're able to handle the leads. What does that look like? Well, these people wanna be texted for the most part, they don't want to be called. So, throw that out. I've been in the business a really long time. So, this is a new way of thinking. For those of us that have been in the business a very long time, you've gotta be able to, move agilely and text and email and, it just takes to your question a path for each person. You really have to be able to carve out, a specific paths, path for each person to go to great lengths to make them aware that you're gonna be by their side the entire time, whether it's tomorrow, whether it's three years . And, you just have to have a good CRM and workflows and a team that's all on the same page and really believes in what you're doing.
Kristin Messerli (
Can you speak to some of the metrics that you've seen as a result of this work? Like what have been the results of building out this platform?
Greg Sher (
Well, this past month, for instance, we closed close to 50 units for, around 15 million. These are all from videos. So, this is not self-generated business. These are people making Tik Toks, reels, Facebook, things like that. And us taking them through our process and closing them. And then in the month of August, we brought in 4,600 leads. And, give you some statistics around that. That's 11 influencers producing that and, 97.5% of these people wanna purchase a home. 90% of them don't have a real estate agent yet. Think about that for a minute. And 93% of that 90% that don't have agents, they want an agent introduction. Just let that run through your mind for a minute. Wild. So, we talk about client for life, We all have our CRMs and talk about this is like the real client for life thing I'm talking about right here. Like, bring them in, nurture them, show them you care, and you'll have a customer forever. Because unlike when a real estate agent gives you a referral and this person already has bought three homes, and now they just happen to have the hot hand, the agent, you're actually getting to the consumer before any agent, even in the mix usually. So, you're able to craft that experience, unique to the way you want to do it. And hopefully, how often people refinance and people buy homes, right? It's every five or seven years. So, you're talking about a 23, 24 year old, you've got six, seven transactions on your hands right there.
Alex Kustishin (
But drive that message even further. How much would it have cost somebody to buy 4,000 plus leads? And how much effort do you have to go and fight through all the noise? How much competition was there for 4,000 leads?
Greg Sher (
Zero, Not one dime was spent on Lending Tree. nothing. They all,
Alex Kustishin (
Don't worry about what they said, Listen to what I said.
Greg Sher (
There's no triggers and people calling behind you because they're, that's what they do. It's not like it's none of that service. Yes. So, the marketing cost is zero right now. There's a cost to acquire, Right? Right. So you have to go find the creator that fits your culture that you want to build around, Right? If you're a lender in this room and you're thinking, Oh my goodness, I wanna go down this path, you gotta find kind of that pillar in the ground. You can't just say to your people, We're all gonna be influencers now. We're all gonna be creators. I mean, Margo, you can speak to this better than anyone. This is a question I asked you before, like, what does it take, Can anybody do this? Like, where does somebody begin?
Margot Ettedgui (
Yeah. And it's actually really interesting that you said that not only did you not have to spend any money on marketing, not only did you not have to sift through the noise, these leads are contacting you because they wanna work with you. They have senior videos, they feel that they connect with you. They can go through your digital resume at this point and check out hundreds of videos and feel, Yep, that person is really the person that I wanna give all my financial information to and help me pick out a loan, a product that's gonna be with me for the next 30 years. That's like really big. To answer your question, can anyone do this? I think the realistic answer is not everyone can do this. And I think that not every strategy fits for everyone, but I do believe that everyone should try because you have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. And I think that finding what your own strategy is. Like I know a lot of the influencers that are in his division and everyone has a different tactic. My videos are different than every other influencer's videos and it's just what works for me. Maybe not work for the other person, but you won't know until you try.
Alex Kustishin (
That's the authenticity. I mean that, why they have to be different.
Margot Ettedgui (
And It's another thing too, to analyze the performance of the videos, to see this video worked well because I spoke about this subject. Maybe I can break that up and make more about that and, really nurture your leads in your community that's following that saying, I'm not ready to buy right now, but let me follow this person so that when I am ready, I know exactly who I wanna work with.
Alex Kustishin (
And, look and if it doesn't work for everyone, like you're sitting there going, this may not work for me. Find a Margo like I'm serious. Like, yes, it may not be for you. You may have no one on your team today. Find someone, make that investment. It is going to pay off the cost of acquisition of Gen Z's moving forward is gonna blow your mind. Cuz it could be zero, could be zero. And they you ask a Gen Z person if they know what a company stands for, three times more likely to know what a company stands for than baby boomers did. Baby boomers didn't care. The Gen Z. They're like, I know what you stand for. And so now start you do wanna lead with your heart. Now you really do. This next generation. You're not gonna have to sell them because they're like, I believe what you believe. I'm your customer.
Margot Ettedgui (
And what's also interesting is that Gen Z is using social media as a search engine. Yes. Forget Google. They're not going on Google to find mortgage broker. I have had so many of my leads that said, I found you because I typed in mortgage broker on TikTok. I found you because I typed in bank statement loans on Instagram. It really is about really, dominating a digital real estate when it comes to hashtags and the content that you're putting out there and making sure that it's very specific to the type of leads that you want to get.
Kristin Messerli (
And what I think is important to recognize is that there has been a, a clearly a huge shift in the way that people are communicating, searching for information, consuming information. But, and there's a value element to this where people want to work with people that align with their values and all of that. But it's also a basic human connection that people are looking for. We are following influencers because they're people that we identify with, you know? And I think if you apply that to other areas of your business, whether it's making sure that people are using video whenever you're having communication with people, that's a way to connect with someone and, and see them eye to eye. But I think that we've shifted in the way that we are following people for them as individuals. Versus a company or a brand in a lot of ways.
Greg Sher (
I think people are also starving for, the connection. Absolutely, She mentioned the word authenticity. So if you're in this room thinking, maybe I dip my toe in the water or maybe I don't, or maybe you're apprehensive, just go back to whatever your value proposition is, go back to your experience and what you think you bring to the table that makes you unique and start right there. Everybody in this room knows exactly what you bring to the table Yeah. And your real estate transaction. The other thing I wanna mention is that, as everyone's trying to build their business or in some cases rebuild it after the boom, there is a humongous community out there of real estate agents that also went in. So, the ad batts that Margot gets the ad batts that my influencers get in real estate offices, they otherwise could have never imagined getting in. You cannot believe. What that's like because they want to, they want a piece of this too. They know where this is all going. So, that's also something to mention that if you can get that community going, they'll be a byproduct of that. And how you can build your experience. And there's a guy I work with right now who's, God bless him, he's 55 probably. he's not the most charismatic guy in the world. He's the last guy you'd expect to go on TikTok. But he said, You know what, Screw it. I'm going on. And to date it's been six months. He claims he's gotten 13 deals from that because real estate agents are calling him saying, I love what you're trying to do. Let me send you a deal, yeah think about that.
Margot Ettedgui (
It's so true. A majority of my pipeline actually is coming from referral partners, real estate agents, architects, interior designers, that developers a lot of developers they tell me I want you to come to my home, to my open house, do presentations in my office so that the agents are well informed about the products that are out there and can tie in the product real estate and the financing together. I mean it's literally a two for one. It's incredible the amounts, opportunity that comes. Exactly. I mean, magazine interviews, everything. Even this, this is because of TikTok.
Alex Kustishin (
Yeah. And look, millennials started a trend, guys, they started a trend. Millennials said, Hey, we like to learn in groups. Cuz we feel safer. We wanna hear what other people are asking that the next generation learns from who. They, learning by what they're seeing. Okay. And so one to many is gonna become a huge, huge process. One to many instead of talking to one borrower at a time, bring 35 of 'em on a call and talk to all of them at once. Bring it to and allow them to interact and talk. And you watch, you watch the percentage of those people, they call you back, refer somebody else. When are you doing that again? Can you do that for another group? And it's just going one to many is a huge, you're you're seeing that through social media. Social media is one to many. Right. And the same thing in your training, in your presentations, in your pitches. If you have something that just changed, think about this for a minute. If you have a new solution, new product, new offering that you have, and all of a sudden you have a database of people you're like, you know what? All of these people fit this. Do not go one by one by one. Send out a message. Get out to them and say, we are hosting a 20 minute, do not make it an hour. Right. Keep it short. Keep the content really concise and we're covering this. So let's say if I live in, I live in Boulder, how to invest in Boulder for this generation, Right. Where to be looking at today and how to make the best decisions. Join us for 15 minutes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. One to many. Bring him in and see what happens. And it's all driven by this new generation. Yep. It wouldn't have worked before.
Kristin Messerli (
And if any of you saw Ryan Holiday, hopefully all of you saw him this morning, he talked about content and how important that was in building authenticity and and instead of traditional advertising. But I think it can feel really overwhelming when we actually sit down to say, Okay, yeah, I get it. I'm bought in, but now I'm starting at ground zero. So I'd like to get really actionable on like how you get started. So, Margo, let's start with you. What would you say or tell us a little bit about how you got started or recommendations on getting started?
Margot Ettedgui (
I think for me, how I started was quite literally in the moment. And what that means is that I really, Okay. for me, like the best way to explain this is that like, I didn't wanna overthink and overcomplicate how I was gonna get the next client. And I remember quite literally June of 2020, I remember like getting emails and being like, Wow, like these people have these great questions and let me just reenact it on a video and put that out there. And that's kind of how we just organically started was really just breaking down the pressure of like, but I don't have the camera, but I don't have the script, but I don't have the people, the team, the editors. You really don't need that because people are gonna see right through that. You've gone way too far the extra mile to make that content. So I really think it's just about creating the content, like I said before in the moment. And just really making it easy for yourself. Use your phone, talk to people the way you wanna be spoken to reenact things that are happening in your day to day. Even if you wanna vlog, if you just think I don't know where to begin vlog and show them what a day to day looks like. I mean, there are so many ways, but for me, quite simply, I was, I remember very vividly I was sitting at my desk and I was looking at some emails and I was like, I think that if I just did a skit and like redid this, people would understand better. And I grabbed my water bottle and I put my phone down and I just started recording. And I just consistently kept that up Once I understood, okay I think I'm going somewhere here consistently is going to be key because you can try once it's gonna flop, maybe you'll be discouraged. You're gonna think, Should I get back out there? You absolutely should. Like, you don't know until one video really starts to perform well and you can understand how do I adapt accordingly. So, I just think you need to really not worry, not think about outside perspective and noise and opinions and just do it if that's what you want to do. And I think a lot of people that overthink it and overanalyze it's probably not gonna work for you if you're overthinking it. It really needs to feel natural.
Kristin Messerli (
So good. Yeah. Okay.
Alex Kustishin (
So, can I unpack one thing that you just said? I think Margot just gave everyone here the way to get started. If one person has a question, I promise you there's a million people that have the same question. So Margo took a question and she re-ask it on camera and then she answered the question that she asked. It's a great way to start. That is just a brilliant way to start. Next time a borrow asks you a question, you're like, That's a good question. Record it. anytime you're like, like that's a good question. Record it. You wanna get star, Like you just literally gave the basic recipe to bake this thing out for you guys.
Greg Sher (
You gotta remember not to care too. Above all, you can't worry about your hair, what you're wearing. Yeah. Cuz people see right through that. That's just like if you put if you make it an elaborate video with videographers people, that's not what people want. They want connectivity. And, not everybody's connect gonna connect to your message. That's why my advice was go to what you do best. Go to your value proposition, what you're most passionate about, and people will migrate towards you. If you do that, definitely. And you're gonna be the best version of you if you do that. Right.
Kristin Messerli (
That's what's beautiful about all of this. I think these trends, we can get caught up in some things that are negative about our culture or where it's going, but this is a really positive trend that is people want to connect in a very authentic way and you get to be yourself and your best marketing is going to be you being authentic to yourself. So yes, Greg, from a lender's perspective, can you share how would someone get started in, maybe it's whether it's building out an influencer platform or whatever advice you have as a lender getting into marketing to Gen Z.
Greg Sher (
Well, I think if you're passionate about it as a lender, you need to do two things. You need to, figure out how you're gonna manage the lead flow when it comes in. Again, back to what I said, reverse engineering. And then you have to figure out who that pillar's gonna be in the ground. So, you wanna start looking at people, watching their videos and just like, I'm I'm saying to you, go and see who connects with you. Someone out there is gonna resonate to you. They're gonna, they're gonna look, sound, feel like they're a part of your culture. And that's the person you want to hone in on. And you wanna just have a conversation. Let them know you're passionate about this, you believe in what they're doing, you believe it's the future, let's build something together for these guys and girls, it's literally the ground floor. We are in the top of the first inning. I'm not even sure the players are even on the field yet. Okay. Let alone nobody out. So I mean, I know this from having approached each one of these 11 influencers that work for us now, they all had the same struggle when I approached them. They couldn't manage their leads. Their lender looked at them like they had three eyes, they got zero support. And so when, when you set it all up and you make them feel like you're on this journey with them, it's the possibilities are endless. And nobody in this room I don't think can make the argument that the real estate window is not shrinking and that this window we all represent is growing. And that's why we're all here. Yes. That's why the three of us are here at the stable and they carved this out, for everyone.
Kristin Messerli (
Great. Before I move to you, Alex, I'd like to come back to you, Margo. And is there anything, and I didn't prep you for this question, but is there anything that you think be authentic, how a lender could better support you or could support you as an influencer? What would you expect or hope for?
Margot Ettedgui (
Yeah, I really love that he said support because that's something that I can't stress enough. I mean, if there's any brokers or CEOs of lenders out there the support that you have to give to your agents is to really let them soar unbreak those change, unleash them out there to be exactly who they wanna be. Let them travel. Let them talk about their journey. It's really just about supporting them. Don't look at them like they're crazy or they have three eyes because you never know which video is going to go viral and which video is going to really hit and bring in all of that advertising for your company. All of that noise is gonna come from the agents. It's very difficult for a company itself to try to promote what each individual agent is able to do so. Because if you can do that, each agent is able to bring their own community to the table. And again, these are leads that they wanna work with these agents that you don't even need to convince them. So I think support is the key. Giving your agent support to let them fly and really let them do exactly what they wanna do and be rockstars.
Greg Sher (
And this is not a plug for my company at all, but I wanna just make a statement kind of with a broad brush because I recently participated in a, a group setting with a bunch of marketing executives from companies I respect a lot. They were 8 or 10 of these companies here, all sort of between the five and 10 billion mark. And 70% of them didn't even know what TikTok was. They were, that's problem talking about their marketing flyers. And they just didn't, couldn't begin to wrap their, well, how do you remain compliant? Like there are a lot of, there are enough barriers to entry, just getting business in the door. If you're at a lender that is opposed to this and you, this is something you wanna be passionate about, you're probably not gonna be able to break through that wall. So, just be mindful of that as well. You have to have the right appetite. From a marketing standpoint, and we get asked these questions all the time from a compliance standpoint, how do you stay above board? Well, First of all, anyone that asked me those questions, I know they're not watching these videos cuz these are, this is not about I got the best rate in town, or I can save you $500 if you come to me. These are just genuine stories that, that really happened or things like that. So, they're not talking about terms, they're not talking about rates, they're not talking about conditions. Yeah. That's the rule, So it applies here too.
Alex Kustishin (
Yeah. I'm gonna take a different direction to your question. In that, look, we've been talking a lot about video and TikTok and, and social media. Gen Z is not just about social. Okay, So let's just, let's just be clear. I'm gonna give you guys a few things that if you're marketers and you're thinking about this, this is gold. This is fire power that you're gonna need. Think about this. 57% of Gen Z's would rather save than spend for a minute. Think about what you can do with that information. How will your messaging change knowing that this generation wants to save? You want to talk, talk about equity. You finally, have an audience that cares about what that means. They're not thinking about refining 20 times. They're like, I can build wealth just by owning this. They want, they literally want that. Use that in your messaging. If you're gonna be doing videos, great, but you don't have to do videos to attract Gen Z. You have to be able to speak in the way that they're listening. I'll give you something else. 83% of them are frustrated with the bank process. Frustrated, So how will you say to them that we make it simple, here's how we do it for you. It's a process. You control your destiny. We are just there. We're bumpers in the bowling alley. We're not telling you what to do. You're gonna make all your own decisions. But guess what? We've got this whole bowling alley, nice and oiled up. It's gonna be smooth and we will not let you fall off the edges. If you know what is important to them. You can communicate to them that way. Yes, video is great. Yes, TikTok is great and you should, I swear, if I was a lender, I would have influencers all over my company for real. That's amazing. And you just need to understand what's important to them. This audience tells you Gen Zs will pour their heart out to you. They'll tell you ex and if you can match that they're in. So just know what's important to them. They want to save, they want to trust you. They wanna know what you care about. Do all those things. And I promise you, cost of acquisition could go down to zero because these people do not need to be convinced to buy something. They wanna believe in what you believe in and then they're in.
Kristin Messerli (
That's a great way to close this up. And a couple things to keep in mind that Gen Z was influenced, they were children when the financial crisis happened. Yeah, But they were influenced by that. And then they're coming out of the pandemic. And so safety and security are at the very top of their list of values for them. So no matter what you're doing, if you really lead with that kind of safety and security, and that's why authenticity is so important, then you're going to be much more effective in reaching this generation. So thank you guys so much for your participation and thank you all for listening.